abortion

[pahosky]

How do i help my friend to understand how serious an abortion is? My best friend is pregnant and she is getting an abortion. Abortion is the best option for her at this time so i am not questioning whether she should keep the baby or not. She just seems to be taking it so lightly and even laughs about it, she doesn't understand an abortion is serious. How can i make her see how serious it is and what she is actually doing without talking her out of it?

[shadowx]

Perhaps she already knows the gravity of the situation but making light of it is her way of dealing with the emotions she is going through like nervous laughter at a funeral it doesnt always reflect your emotions.

[Witch13]

There is always the option of giving birth and then having the baby given for adoption. Which i think is the best for someone who isnt ready to be a mother yet and for the baby.
As for the abortion part, if you could take her to see all those babies at the newborns wing of some hospital, it will definetely have her thinking.

[Serendipity]

I'm a little confused as to why this topic is in Herbs & Herbalism?

If you don't have a question about herbs as relates to abortion I'll move the post for you.

[Traumwandlerin]

She knows that it's serious. Bu like she can'tdeal with being pregnant at this moment, she probably couldn't handle those deep feelings of sorrow. Maybe she would brake. This light feelings and laughing, that is actual protecting her from breaking. So please don't break her intentionally. She will deal sooner or later with this feelings, let her decide when she is ready for it.

Do you really want to force to confront with her feelings? Do you really think that would do her any good at this moment? Maybe it's better to deal with these feelings after the physical act.

Your job as a good friend is not telling her how she should feel but be there and support her whatever and whenever she feels it.

[Greek_Male_Witch]

Edited by StarWitch, because I won't allow judgmental anti-abortion babble on my website. You go take care of all the abused animals in the world, Greek Male Witch. Let women take care of themselves.

[WhiteOne]

Honestly Greek Male Witch, with all politeness, I am sure the girl considering abortion is more pained about her baby than you are.
I agree with Shadow, that she is probably using her laughter as a coping mechanism. It is difficult for anyone who hasn't been in her position to understand how she is feeling--and frankly, I don't believe they have the right to judge her emotional response.
Considering your intentions are good (to the original poster), it is quite strange that you feel the need to explain the gravity of abortion to your friend. She may be in greater need of a listener than an explainer. Do you have any local organizations, who are not Pro-Life, who could give her unbiased support, whatever she chooses?

[_Kaimira_]

i don't know what to say about abortion, i can see if someone was raped, but even that killing unborn child is not a good thing, every living thing needs a chance to live. I don't think she's undstanding that messsage. laughing about it could mean she's in denial. it happened to me when i became pregnant i was 3 and half months i lost my baby. it's like a death just like abortion.

[Starwitch Stone]

I realize that a lot of people have been indoctrinated to believe that human life is especially sacred, more so than all other Earth life. But consider the fact that our world is already overpopulated, we don't have enough resources to take care of all the living humans, and there are children living on top of garbage dumps in third world countries (where they also find their food), and maybe you can see that abortion is a sad but necessary option for many people. There are far more women who have had abortions than would ever admit it. Not only do I think abortion should be legal, but I think it should be FREE, at least to women who can't afford to pay for it.

Did anyone see what happened in Haiti when the earthquake hit? Haitians are 90% Catholic, meaning they don't have access to abortion, and they have very little access to birth control options. So these impoverished people continued to reproduce and reproduce and reproduce some more until they were living on top of each other in makeshift homes all up the side of the mountain. When the earthquake hit, their homes fell on top of each other, killing thousands and leaving MILLIONS of people homeless. They are now facing a Cholera epidemic. 800 people have died already and the disease continues to spread because these poor people are living so close together.

What I'm saying is that overpopulation is not a joke. It's a serious problem that cannot be taken lightly. Human beings have already killed off scores of animal species through hunting and tearing down their habitats.

And I haven't even mentioned the rainforests yet. "We are losing Earth's greatest biological treasures just as we are beginning to appreciate their true value. Rainforests once covered 14% of the earth's land surface; now they cover a mere 6% and experts estimate that the last remaining rainforests could be consumed in less than 40 years. One and one-half acres of rainforest are lost every second with tragic consequences for both developing and industrial countries." (source). Why does this happen? Because human beings are a virus upon the Earth. We are the greediest species on the planet, always wanting more for ourselves.

My opinion is that human life is not more sacred than the other life on the planet (and most humans have no problem killing other animal life.) Most people should refrain from having kids if they can help it. Abortion is sad, but necessary. There is no one to adopt all the unwanted children in the world. The Christians who protest abortion certainly are not adopting all these kids. Neither are they helping the starving kids in other countries. Pro-lifers would rather bring MORE unwanted children into the world rather than saving the children and adults that are already living.

Just consider that perhaps you've been brainwashed by egotistical humans and religious nutjobs into believing that human life is the most important life of any animal, when in fact humans are wreaking devastation on the Earth, killing other animals, destroying forests, trashing the ocean, chopping up mountains to get coal, raping the Earth for oil... I could go on and on.

Let your friend have an abortion and don't bother her about it. If it bothers you that she would laugh about it to cover up her true feelings of fear and confusion then tell her she can call me and I'll take her to the clinic. I might even pay for the procedure for her. As a matter of fact, if anyone needs a friend to go to the clinic with them, I'll go with you if you are going to one of the clinics in the Southeast Tennessee or Atlanta areas.

Here are some resources to help those with unwanted pregnancies.
Buy the Abortion Pill Online - Shipped Worldwide
Facebook page for Abortion with many resources listed
Abortion.com - Find a clinic in your area. Abortion resources.
Abortion Care Network - Resources and Information

I realize to those of you who are anti-abortion, I sound like an indifferent and uncaring person. That's ok with me. If you had heard both sides of the story (and not just the extremely LOUD. OBNOXIOUS side of the abortion protestors) you would understand why it's necessary to keep abortion safe, legal, and accessible. By protesting against abortion, you are taking the side of religious fundamentalists who don't think women should have a right to control their own body and reproduction. If Christians were able to make abortion illegal, their next goal is to make all birth control options illegal as well. They have already had some successes in this area, which is very frightening. Please stand up for the right of women to choose.

It's good that you support your friend's decision. Even though it hurts you to hear her laugh about a serious situation, consider that one out of every THREE pregnancies end in miscarriage. So the human body naturally aborts babies all the time for various reasons. As they say, "A miscarriage happens when the woman's body isn't ready for pregnancy. Abortion is what happens when a woman's mind isn't ready."

StarWitch

[mamma bear]

I know I for one am the type of person that does tend to laugh during a tense moment. Even though I dont mean to it just kinda hapens. So I can definately see where your friend may be making light of the situation as a way to deal with this situation.

On a personal note. I have always felt I was pro-choice/anti-abortion. By this I mean I truely beleive it needs to be the individuals decision and should not be sent back to back room clinics that are unsafe and harfull. as for anti-abortion that is my personal belief for ME. I dont think mentally I could have delt with having an abortion. Thankfully when I got pregnant I was already engaged to my husband and even though we were not fully prepaired financially for a child we both were on the same page...no abortion for us. I have however had friends that have had abortions. It was the right decision for them at that time in thier lives. Your friend is going to need all the support she can get after the fact as well. Unjudgemental support. Be there for her and love her. Its never an easy thing to go through no matter what the person decides to do.

[Starwitch Stone]

And let me also say that, were it not for legal and accessible abortion, this website and forum wouldn't be here at all, because I would have spent the last 20 years raising a child, who would have been the product of two drug-addicted, psychologically-damaged people, one (the father) who is an extremely violent murderer and has been in prison for the past 18 years. If I had had Dean's baby, I would almost certainly be dead right now because he would have murdered me instead of the man he brutally stabbed to death. I was able to get away from him ONLY because I terminated the pregnancy. Abusive men often try to trap women by getting them pregnant. Without abortion, women and young girls would be forced to bear children that they aren't ready to have, leaving them even MORE vulnerable to abusive men. We have to protect girls and women BEFORE we protect unborn, unwanted children.

By the way, I have actually researched BOTH sides of the issue. I've seen the photos of mangled fetuses. I've heard the pro-life arguments. My mom's church even passed out little fetus dolls to the entire congregation to get us all emotionally involved. None of those things have changed my mind. I know how important abortion was for me. Without it, my life would have never evolved to the place where it is now. I'd just be one more Christian mom, driving a gas-hog SUV, taking my ADD kids to soccer-practice, and going to church on Sundays. When you have kids, there is little time to think about spirituality and religion or to be involved with creative projects like this website. You are running ragged all the time, taking care of your kids. Most mothers give up their own dreams and ambitions and focus all their energy onto their children. That energy will probably be wasted though since their daughters will grow older, get pregnant, and do the exact same thing. We need more powerful women in this world if we want anything to change. Men will take their sweet-ass time about bringing peace to the world because they are territorial and competitive and filled with testosterone. It's not impossible, but it's very difficult to do anything that will effect change in this world if you are bogged down with kids and household chores for most of your active adult life.

Those who would keep women in an inferior position to men are the same people who don't believe in or care about global warming. All they care about is spreading their religion and re-gaining control over women so that men can use us as their personal slaves and baby-makers like they used to. If that's something you support, I would urge you to reconsider. Here are some Bible verses to remind you of the position that religious fundamentalists would like to see women in:

1 Pet (3:1-2) "In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the Word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior."

I Timothy (2:11-13) - "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve."

Ephesians (5:22-24) - "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

Colossians (3:18) - "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."

I Corinthians (14: 34-35) - "Let your woman keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

I feel very strongly about the issue of abortion, as you can see. I'm certain that it saved my life. In return, I've been able to help many young people through my work. How many mothers do you personally know who are running their own website and helping other people on a daily basis? (I know a few of them, but it's still extremely rare.) Mothers are great, and I'm NOT anti-mother, but moms typically have to spend their time and energy on their own families and there isn't much left over to give to the unwanted, confused, and abused children in the world. I bet that the vast majority of the kids who visit this forum have been abused or neglected in some way. Someday I plan to do a poll and find out. Think about how much your own life has sucked before you condemn another soul to be born into this world of pain.

Sorry if I hijacked your thread.

StarWitch

[Starwitch Stone]

Your friend is going to need all the support she can get after the fact as well. Unjudgemental support. Be there for her and love her. Its never an easy thing to go through no matter what the person decides to do.

Very good point. Try not to judge your friend. You never know when you could wind up in the same situation. My best friend just happened to get pregnant right before I did. We were both 17 years old. She had an abortion only a few weeks earlier than me. I never got pregnant again and don't intend to have any children. My friend went on to have two boys and she is now totally exhausted every time I see her. She works full-time and her kids are hellions (according to her). She looks like she's been through hell, and I imagine she probably has. Mothering is HARD HARD work. I wouldn't wish it on anyone who wasn't prepared and who didn't want it.

StarWitch

[Starwitch Stone]

You know what's so funny? The person that started this thread is a spammer. Check out the links on that person's (one single) post. So we probably aren't dealing with a real person and real issue. This was just a spammer trick to get us involved in the thread. I'll be very surprised if the poster returns. I'm going to delete the links now, so I guess you can't really see them unless you look in the next 30 seconds.

StarWitch

[Traumwandlerin]

But it's anyway a good discussion

I love how you explain the pro-abortion-side. And I was quite shocked to read that abortion is neither free nor legal in your state oO I'm always sorry to hear such things. Long time I was anti-abortion as a personal choice, friends of mine had abortions, but that's their personal choice, I never felt they were wrong for a second. They were probably wrong having unprotected sex, but as you said, many women aren't able to protect theirselves due to thinking, they haven't the rights to do so. Or being to young and haven't learnt to say "no" yet.

And as a mother I can say, I wouldn't want any women go through pregnancy and childbirth if they don't want to have the baby. Before I got pregnant, I would have said also, that adoption could be an option. But I think, that is only for very strong (or whatever) womens. Having a baby in your womb you don't love, you don't want to have, having all the downsides of pregnancy (like serious health issues for the whole 9 months) and then go through the emotionally, physically and spiritually really intense hours of childbirth while you don't want the child. That's just not bearable.

But StarWitch, as a mother I can always tell you, that of course not all mothers are those brainless chicks who give upt their dreams I have a highly interesting spiritual life, currently writing my PhD, and have a strong connection to my daughter. And all that without a man that supports me. I can't imagine turning into a woman as you described. But you are probably right, that many independent women turn this way when they get children. That's still the brainwash working.

[WhiteOne]

In America, the "pro-abortion" side is usually called pro-choice. This is because people who are "pro-choice" simply believe that women should have the choice to get an abortion.
When I was 19 I got pregnant while using the "ovulation" or "rhythm" method (Don't use it!.) It was a very difficult choice, but I chose to become a mother--then I got some better birth control! The father and I split up after a couple of years, and then I realized how difficult it really is to be a single mother!
It is an extremely difficult path that I would not force onto anyone.
The point is: I chose to carry on the pregnancy. I was not on drugs. I was not in an abusive relationship. I was willing to make the tremendous sacrifice of being a mother.
However, I defend other women's choice to get abortions.
And I agree--we are not all soccer moms who drive SUV's!
But it is true that being a mother is no joke. And it doesn't benefit society, the individual woman, or the child, to force women to take on this responsibility.