What are your thoughts on suicide?

[RyukaAscendant]

The big question I would ask is if there is no life for us after death is that ok with you.

Family and community are necessary to a certain degree. But to make someone stay for the sake of others is itself a form of selfishness. There are many that have lived on their own in isolation. If isolation doesn't bother you the second question is do you want to live? If you do there are resources to help with that as well.

[Aetherial]

If there is no life after death then I feel like this life is even more worthless, because it means that I am a mere sack of flesh, bones, fat and muscle.

Isolation is probably what bothers me most. It almost physically hurts, being alone. It's just an awful feeling for me.

Do I want to live? I would, but not like this. If this is how it's to be, then no, I don't.

[Xiao Rong]

Hey Aetherial, I'm sorry you're in this much pain. I know this isn't what you mean, but you're not alone. You've got us. It's not the same as having someone in-person, but we care about you.

[SpiritTalker]

Where I live we can legally declare bankruptcy once, and liquidate all assets toward a percentage of debt. We have more and more homeless people whose "welfare options" have expired. They have nothing left and they beg for pocket change on street corners. There are homeless shelters in the larger cities that are run by churches. They've established a separate subculture. I can imagine that every single one of these men and women has considered suicide. I've talked to a few of the folks on the corners, and they have said that they may have nothing but they didn't quit. It's something to think about.

[Firebird]

Are there any pagans in your area you could connect with?

If you can hang on, this will pass. It may take time and hard work, lots of hard work. (We can talk about therapies if you are interested)
You are very young, death by ones own hand is a permanent solution to a temporary issue, the Goddess brought you here for a journey, this may be a challenge in that journey.
My high school chum took her life and I miss her all the time. Believe me, you would be missed. Those folks are going to wonder if they couldn't have done something to prevent this.
Please call this number if you get that close.
It's in your country the national hot line is there too.
http://www.suicide.org/hotlines/interna ... lines.html

You are loved,
Firebird

[Lord_of_Nightmares]

I do not have any family and there is no social services support system that would help me. I live in the Old World, and in one of its poorest countries, probably.

Brother, actually. Thank you for your kind words, either way.

I know, Snow. It is a big decision. I'm not taking it lightly and I try to consider every option.

I'm completely on my own. As I said, in this country if you're poor and don't have money for even the most basic of things, it's your problem.

I felt exactly like this living in Texas. My family barely helped. I was on my own. Over there they blame the poor for being poor. I eventually moved. My life has been better.


I would suggest moving if you can find a way.

[Mr Crowley]

Again, no one knows what happens after death. How do you know that you will have a better afterlife?

If the problem is not having someone around, you need to focus on what you can do to make yourself feel better, without relying on someone else.

Also, a clear, numbered list of issues allows people to offer suggestions.
1
2
3
4
5
If you make a numbered list, people will give more focused suggestions on each issue.

Myself, I think it would be unwise for a person your age to commit suicide.

[Aetherial]

I've lived most of my life in poverty. I'm not going down that road again.

Also, I do not need therapy. It's not a depression, it's not a temporary bad feeling that will pass. I'm not sad because some little thing didn't work out. I just failed at life. Completely. I had quite a substantial amount of money, if my investments would turn out well I could have make a good living, perhaps get back to university and accomplish something. Now that it's gone I know that there is simply no way, excluding some sudden and unexpected miracles do do anything to make my life better. As I said, my only prospect is to live in the cheapest den imaginable and pay debts for years. Please I implore you to cut the "it gets better" bullshit because that's what it is - bullshit. For years I was living a life I hated because I was hoping things might turn for the better. I tried. I failed. They didn't. In fact everything turned for worse. Much, much worse then I ever imagined.

I never really had much contact with my peers. Since young age I struggled with obesity which made be go through hell because of all the bullying and insults I suffered. It completely ruined my self-esteem. Even when I lost a lot of weight when I was around 15 I felt like shit. My life was not really good in any way. I was lonely, my mother tried to work to sustain our little family, but my father was gone rather fast. He was a murderer and a psychopath. He abused her and most likely killed his previous partner. The official version is suicide. Anyway. He fled the country as far as I know. So my mother tried, she worked for her brother who used her as a cheap workforce and screwed her over money. In the meantime my grandmother was taking care of me, but most of the time she was drunk. My mother never had much luck for men. Mostly entering relationships with abusive, worthless scum of the worst sort. My grandfather died years before my birth and my mother's brother was a horrible materialist who simply ignored the family after the death of his father and caused them to have to switch flats, because they couldn't afford the rent and such. Since early school I had one person I called a friend. But I fell in love with him. It didn't improve our relations. It was around that time that I was in the sort of a middle school. My mother on the other hand married a worthless alcoholic, gambler and a scumbag from prison. The situation at home didn't really influence my grades well. And I had to struggle with my love for someone whom I know will never return it. I moved out of my "home" when I was around 16 years because it was simply impossible to live there. I lived with my grandmother who got an apartment after her mother-in-law passed away and left it to her. It was shortly after I lived with her, I was around 16,5 maybe, I was very hurt because of unreciprocated love and the fact that my mother completely ruined our family and basically banished me from home to be with that scumbag. It was sort of a hot situation in which her husband threatened my grandmother and said that she should be glad that he didn't chase with a knife after her like my father did. Of course he then went to casino. When I heard from my granmother of what happened I returned home and told my mother that if she lets him in again I will kill him. I stood there by the door for a whole night. But ultimately as soon as I went to sleep mother left him in, because he deserves another chance, because he will change. She also started to play in the casino with him and together they completely abolished any semblance of financial stability we used to have. We were always somewhat in debt, but it was under control. I tried to kill myself then, in fact I almost succeeded. Yet I survived and tried to live despite knowing that I will never be able to love again and despite what was happening at my mother's place. I was at the beginning of my high school, so I thought what the hell, let's try to live some more. Maybe it will get better. In the mean-time due to debt mother and her husband changed what used to be our home apartment to a small den a ruin, complete with broken windows and fungus everywhere. I finished my school regardless. It wasn't easy living with my grandmother. I loved her and we had some truly amazing moments together, but she was hard to say the least. She was drinking hard and very sick. She was in pain most of the time, both physical and mental due to what was happening in our family. She had a very hard life as well and she was often very unpleasant and even abusive. But she truly loved us. After finishing my high school I went to another city to study at a university. Basically completely another end of the country. It didn't work. I returned home after a year. Things weren't really looking well at home and I wasn't doing well at the university, it was not the right faculty maybe and the city didn't resonate well with me. I was hoping I will go to another university in yet another town and try from scratch yet again, but instead I landed in a hospital on the day I was to send in the paperwork. I spent a month in the hospital and after leaving I wasn't even able to get out of bed for almost a month. Yet I finally stood on my feet and tried to live again. I started to read a lot of books, going out for walks, getting myself back together. Then, just over two months later my grandmother died. I went on a walk and when I returned home she was lying dead on the floor of her room. She was 65. Since we didn't expect it, she didn't pass the apartment onto me so it went half for my mother, half for her brother. Of course her brother wanted to sell the flat right away so he can get the money. He didn't care I had nowhere to go. So I found a job, lived a short while there, until we sold it. Then rented a loft. I had three jobs in total, first I worked for a week maybe in a factory, then for few months in a call centre, and then for over half a year in a pawnshop. All of them were terrible. The last one most so. It was since 09:00 to 23:00, sometimes two or three days in a row. All day sitting on your arse and dealing with lowlifes trying to liquidate often stolen goods. I tried to do something with the money from the apartment by investing in gold ETFs. Since because my uncle took half of it, despite everyone knowing full well that grandmother wanted the apartment to go to me so I have somewhere to life, it wasn't enough for university. Thus I had to try something, else I would never be able to get enough money to actually study. It turned out very well in the beginning. I quit that awful job, hoping I can finally start to do something to fix my life together. But ultimately around a month ago when FED raised interest rates and gold prices plummeted down I lost everything.

And here I am.

Therapy you say? What can therapy help? What? I tell someone all the stuff that happened in my life, a tiny bit of which I condensed above and then I will hear how it will get better? What will get better? I had several chances to actually do something good, and I failed every single one of them.

All of that aside. Please. Stick to the topic. What I'm interested in most is what do you think happens after you kill yourself. What awaits us on the other side if there is one to speak of.

I don't now whether I will have a better afterlife, Crowley. Nor that I will even have any. But to be honest the idea of everything going blank and eternal nothingness seems better than what awaits me in this life if I chose to stay.

[SnowCat]

I hope that you'll decide to stay with us. Keep checking in.

Snow

[Firebird]

You have had quite a lot to deal with.
Have you read this thread?
http://everythingunderthemoon.net/forum ... t8800.html
I hope you decide to stay too.
Blessings, Firebird

[SnowCat]

I will try to answer your actual question. I think it depends in part, on the reason for the suicide. In your case, my sense is that you would probably be given time on the other side to contemplate your actions. I don't agree that suicide is an unforgivable transgression. But we were all given this chance at life for a reason, and choosing to cut it short may not be the wisest course of action. I do understand, to an extent, your reasoning. I'm not sure my reaction would be any different if I were in your shoes. We can't decide for you, but you will always have people here who will support you.

Snow

[Yex]

Aetherial, you say that you don't need therapy and that you aren't depressed, but it 100% sounds like you are suffering from severe depression. Maybe it has been brought on by a hard life, but that feeling that life is naught but suffering and nothing will ever get better - that is depression. And it sounds like you have had a hard life, and you're in a hard spot - but it really can get better. As Robert Anton Wilson said, "The sad man lives in a sad world. The happy man lives in a happy world. The angry person lives in an angry world". Having struggled with depression myself, I know that feeling of hopelessness, that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, but... Countless people have felt like their lives were ruined and could never get any better. Many killed themselves, many continued to live and died in misery, but many unexpectedly found happiness. I really think that it would be truly foolish to end your life. As seems to be the general consensus here, no one really knows what awaits after death. Some of us may have ideas, but we don't really find out until we get there. So we have this life to make of it what we will. And this life is so much bigger, vaster, more complex, weirder, grander, and more beautiful than we ever really realize at any given point on the journey. Just when all seems lost, the story can take an unexpected plot twist. I'm really not just spouting meaningless platitudes here - I think what I'm saying is very true.

What do you have to lose by trying therapy, if you feel you have nothing? What do you have to lose by living, if death is a giant question mark? Create yourself.

[smogie_michele]

I've lived most of my life battling severe depression and being suicidal- I know from my personal experience that when people suggest therapy that it sounds condescending, but I promise it is coming from good intentions.
That being said, my opinion on suicide is that once it is done, it isn't about the person who took their life, but about the people who they left behind.

We are all here for you.

[Xiao Rong]

Aetherial, you've been through a lot -- much more than most people go through in a lifetime. You're an incredibly strong person to have made it so far. Thanks for sharing your story; it means a lot that you were able to be so open about what you're going through.

Is there anything that helps at all when you're feeling so hopeless?

[Tutmosis]

I really believe you can live. Please reconsider what you're about to do... My words may not mean much because I don't know you personally but as someone that struggled with depression and even attempted suicide, I can assure you that you can live! You can live a good life too. It may not seem like it at this moment, I know, but it is not impossible to live my friend. Please reconsider and stay alive!