Ok first and formost I am not going to kill myself, period.
That said i know that people normally are anti-suicide and with good cause, but I can not wrap my head around that taking life into your own hands is such a taboo.
Before anyone says anything I have had 4 very muddled people in my life end. At the time I was beyond distraught I was very young and didn't know what I thought on that topic yet.
People say suicide is a selfish act demanding someone to remain in a life they did not want is just as selfish.
Suicide is a sin because it is prideful, not because it hurts the people around.
Just a thought but acts of suicide that have been thought over for some time not just an attintion getting shceme turned deadly should not be "Wrong"
Suicide
While I have had my share of related deaths, 2 in the past 3 years, I can say that it does hurt those close to the individuals. The second one was just as bad as the first and believe me you never truly get over it, at least in my case.
If the action is thouroughly thought out then there is no question over the persons reasoning, they believe they have no other viable option and nothing you do will change their mind, many people believe it is a bad thing to control your own life in such a way, but it is one thing afforded us by free will, the choice to end it now or later. Everyone dies, it's just a matter of when and how. People that can come to grips with that fact aren't as persuaded by suicide, but that is not to say it is not there.
I know I may sound a little insensitive, but I try to see logic in things that I don't fully understand. If I could have my two friends back and ask them why they did it, in an attempt to understand their descision, I would do it in a heartbeat if they wanted to return or if they hadn't done it. But it was their choice. I know that Adam had not thought it through because of what he said to me before hand. But it was still his descision to make, emotions may cloud judgment, but it was still a choice. I know I'm ranting I'll get off now and let everyone get back to the main subject of this thread.
Blessed Be,:D
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
If the action is thouroughly thought out then there is no question over the persons reasoning, they believe they have no other viable option and nothing you do will change their mind, many people believe it is a bad thing to control your own life in such a way, but it is one thing afforded us by free will, the choice to end it now or later. Everyone dies, it's just a matter of when and how. People that can come to grips with that fact aren't as persuaded by suicide, but that is not to say it is not there.
I know I may sound a little insensitive, but I try to see logic in things that I don't fully understand. If I could have my two friends back and ask them why they did it, in an attempt to understand their descision, I would do it in a heartbeat if they wanted to return or if they hadn't done it. But it was their choice. I know that Adam had not thought it through because of what he said to me before hand. But it was still his descision to make, emotions may cloud judgment, but it was still a choice. I know I'm ranting I'll get off now and let everyone get back to the main subject of this thread.
Blessed Be,:D
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Do not attempt, Achieve
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
Only if you have never dealt with it or if you can't come to terms with it. Controversial topics are interesting because there really is no right answer. Many people won't commit to something like that so they avoid it, it's like the thread on abortion, we got responses from people that had strong opinions. I don't think I put anything of value into that thread, but my reasoning on that was that I am a guy and it is not a problem directly related to me. I will have an opinion when I have a wife and she wants one. I really don't have any reason to say it is something I support since it isn't my descision to make. Well I guess we should get back to the topic at hand. Anything else you want to hear about or more opinions on it? I'm good for a few but I hold reservations on a few.
Blessed Be,
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Blessed Be,
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Do not attempt, Achieve
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
When I grew up in the church, they taught that suicide is a sin because person commits murder. It is "unpardonable" because the person cannot repent of the sin later.
I would be lying if I said I had never considered it. Something always holds me back, however. It is almost as though there are a pair of invisible hands grabbing my shoulders from behind. Either that or the hands keep covering my eyes so I cannot think it through clearly. It feels like a commercial I saw years ago involving hands covering the camera lens. I cannot explain it any better than that. I do not literally feel or see the hands; it is a metaphorical description of what goes on in my head on an emotional level.
There was only one time when I became angry, and the suicide threat was indeed used as an attention-grabber. I had a classmate/friend years ago in college who went into a depression when his girlfriend left him. I called him up to see how he was and he said, "I took a bunch of pills. The bottle is almost empty." After knowing too many people who had committed suicide, I asked him directions to his apartment. When I got there, he was all chirpy, sitting up watching TV, and said blatantly, "Oh, I took a few aspirin and I'm almost out of them. I just said that so you would come over here." For the next week, he spread rumors to other classmates that I was trying to pursue him on the rebound and that I went to his apartment the day I learned his girlfriend broke up with him. Needless to say, we did not remain good friends much longer.
I have known people who committed suicide, and some who attempted it but did not succeed. Motives are always different, as different as the people who committed the act. Some were young, some were old. Some of them, it was over medical conditions that caused them too much agony that they could no longer bear. In some cases, it was a textbook case of a depressed teenager.
One of them sort of freaked me out only because he had intentions of bringing a few others down with him in the process. He was one of those isolated "angry white males" who lived nextdoor to us at the time. He used a shotgun. Even then, I cried a lot a few days later. His stuff had been cleaned out of the house, and when my parents took their own garbage out front a few days later, one of the garbage bags in front of his yard had spilled over. As they went to pick it back up, they found his baby pictures and other sentimental things in his garbage. One of the toys was a small leprechaun toy that had the words inscribed on it, "Somebody loves me." Nobody even wanted his baby pictures. That affects me to this day.
To be honest, I do not think it is for me to judge. I could try to persuade and I could try to stop them, but it is not in my hands what would become of them in an afterlife, no matter what sort of afterlife you believe in. I lean towards reincarnation myself. It is easy to stand tall and say, "Oh it is selfish and I would never do it" but I do not really know what is on their minds and what sort of pain they are going through. I'd like to have fuzzy beliefs that they mean well; very much like George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life." It would be nice of Clarence could pay visits to more people more often.
It is not a good argument to say that they are only hurting themselves. It does affect those around them. This is especially true if there is still family. I have friends and relatives that work in law enforcement or in the medical establishment and I can say, it affects them too.
This post is getting very, very long and I still do not feel like I said anything meaningful. Pardon me if I try to muddle through it myself, as well as those other controversial topics like abortion and death penalty. I read somewhere that sometimes even the Tao Masters have to say, "I know that I do not know." So it is with me.
I would be lying if I said I had never considered it. Something always holds me back, however. It is almost as though there are a pair of invisible hands grabbing my shoulders from behind. Either that or the hands keep covering my eyes so I cannot think it through clearly. It feels like a commercial I saw years ago involving hands covering the camera lens. I cannot explain it any better than that. I do not literally feel or see the hands; it is a metaphorical description of what goes on in my head on an emotional level.
There was only one time when I became angry, and the suicide threat was indeed used as an attention-grabber. I had a classmate/friend years ago in college who went into a depression when his girlfriend left him. I called him up to see how he was and he said, "I took a bunch of pills. The bottle is almost empty." After knowing too many people who had committed suicide, I asked him directions to his apartment. When I got there, he was all chirpy, sitting up watching TV, and said blatantly, "Oh, I took a few aspirin and I'm almost out of them. I just said that so you would come over here." For the next week, he spread rumors to other classmates that I was trying to pursue him on the rebound and that I went to his apartment the day I learned his girlfriend broke up with him. Needless to say, we did not remain good friends much longer.
I have known people who committed suicide, and some who attempted it but did not succeed. Motives are always different, as different as the people who committed the act. Some were young, some were old. Some of them, it was over medical conditions that caused them too much agony that they could no longer bear. In some cases, it was a textbook case of a depressed teenager.
One of them sort of freaked me out only because he had intentions of bringing a few others down with him in the process. He was one of those isolated "angry white males" who lived nextdoor to us at the time. He used a shotgun. Even then, I cried a lot a few days later. His stuff had been cleaned out of the house, and when my parents took their own garbage out front a few days later, one of the garbage bags in front of his yard had spilled over. As they went to pick it back up, they found his baby pictures and other sentimental things in his garbage. One of the toys was a small leprechaun toy that had the words inscribed on it, "Somebody loves me." Nobody even wanted his baby pictures. That affects me to this day.
To be honest, I do not think it is for me to judge. I could try to persuade and I could try to stop them, but it is not in my hands what would become of them in an afterlife, no matter what sort of afterlife you believe in. I lean towards reincarnation myself. It is easy to stand tall and say, "Oh it is selfish and I would never do it" but I do not really know what is on their minds and what sort of pain they are going through. I'd like to have fuzzy beliefs that they mean well; very much like George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life." It would be nice of Clarence could pay visits to more people more often.
It is not a good argument to say that they are only hurting themselves. It does affect those around them. This is especially true if there is still family. I have friends and relatives that work in law enforcement or in the medical establishment and I can say, it affects them too.
This post is getting very, very long and I still do not feel like I said anything meaningful. Pardon me if I try to muddle through it myself, as well as those other controversial topics like abortion and death penalty. I read somewhere that sometimes even the Tao Masters have to say, "I know that I do not know." So it is with me.
It's like walking down an empty street, listening to your own footsteps. But all you have to do is knock on any door and say, "If you'll let me in, I'll live the way you want me to live. And I'll think the way you want me to think." And all the blinds will go up, and all the doors will open, and you'll never feel lonely. Ever again.
~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
-
JBRaven
- Banned Member
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:32 am
- Gender: Female
- Location: 49.610487472132995 7.337837219238281
My first love shot himself in the head 3 hours after a broke up with him (he moved to England) 4 years later his brother hung himself because he couldn't deal with that. In both "Notes" the subject was me and thier mother still blames me for what happened. Everyone neeeds a scapegoat and I am fine being that to a mother who lost both her children. I do not mourn the second brother's death his was a thought out choice that took 4 years to make, the first I do not moourn now because I am wiser and understand that his life would not of ever gotten better because he wouldn't allow it to. I guess what I am trying to say that once you see a bigger picture I will know that they are coming back agien and agien until they learn from these lessons.
IIf I know it is just a cry for help yes I will try to stop it the first time but if anyone uses the suicide card constantly I will tell them to f*cking do it. If I know that this is more than a mere whim I would give them my love and support.
The lord and lady created us out of loneliness or so the story goes, and maybe taking lones own life is the final test because of that same loneliness because we create life from love.........this is still a thoery in progress I need to think on it more to fully express it.,
IIf I know it is just a cry for help yes I will try to stop it the first time but if anyone uses the suicide card constantly I will tell them to f*cking do it. If I know that this is more than a mere whim I would give them my love and support.
The lord and lady created us out of loneliness or so the story goes, and maybe taking lones own life is the final test because of that same loneliness because we create life from love.........this is still a thoery in progress I need to think on it more to fully express it.,
On the Tao master thing it is true and a few wise words to go with it, "a person undertands what they know, a wise person knows when they do not."
The one that effects me the most is not the first one of my friends to kill himself, it was the second. The first I had no warning no idea what was going on, but with Amy I had the warning and tried to help, when she called me right before she stabbed herself I should have called someone else, however my first action was to get to her house as quickly as I could, she was still alive when I got there and I called an ambulance as soon as I saw what had happened, but no matter what I did I couldn't stop the bleeding. The ambulance arrived too late, she died in her living room, 7 minutes before they arrived. I still think if I had called before leaving I might have been able to help, but I didn't. Her parents were at work when this happened so they weren't there. I tried to call them for the hospital but after dialing the number I couldn't bring myself to tell them what happened. I know her reasons though they were not thought through, she called me for support that I gave to the best of my ability, her boyfriend just broke up with her after a long relationship so it was hard on her, I did my best but I've never had such a relationship so I fumbled around for anything I could find that might help.
Sorry, I'm kinda sidetracking but this isn't something I like to talk about, I just find that if you tell others about it they might have a better idea of how to handle it if it ever happens to them.
Well, I've been working on this post for 30 min so I should et back to work.
Blessed Be,
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
The one that effects me the most is not the first one of my friends to kill himself, it was the second. The first I had no warning no idea what was going on, but with Amy I had the warning and tried to help, when she called me right before she stabbed herself I should have called someone else, however my first action was to get to her house as quickly as I could, she was still alive when I got there and I called an ambulance as soon as I saw what had happened, but no matter what I did I couldn't stop the bleeding. The ambulance arrived too late, she died in her living room, 7 minutes before they arrived. I still think if I had called before leaving I might have been able to help, but I didn't. Her parents were at work when this happened so they weren't there. I tried to call them for the hospital but after dialing the number I couldn't bring myself to tell them what happened. I know her reasons though they were not thought through, she called me for support that I gave to the best of my ability, her boyfriend just broke up with her after a long relationship so it was hard on her, I did my best but I've never had such a relationship so I fumbled around for anything I could find that might help.
Sorry, I'm kinda sidetracking but this isn't something I like to talk about, I just find that if you tell others about it they might have a better idea of how to handle it if it ever happens to them.
Well, I've been working on this post for 30 min so I should et back to work.
Blessed Be,
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Do not attempt, Achieve
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
I didn't know at the time but if she had told me to let her go then I would have, it is her descision, it would be hard but I would do it. She did ask me to do anything other than to leave a message, that however is a personal matter and between her parents and me. If she had told me to and the Medics arrived in time I would have stopped them, it is her choice to make and no one elses.
Blessed Be,
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Blessed Be,
The Judge
Wiccan Soldier
Do not attempt, Achieve
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
Do not hear, Listen
Do not go blindly forward, See
Do not judge, Understand
Do not forget, for in this you shall learn nothing
-The Judge
-
Starwitch
- Owner
- Posts: 4864
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm
- Gender: Female
- Location: Chattanooga, TN
- Contact:
Hi JB, it's really nice to see you again!
Since your life has been touched by suicide so much I really want to recommend the book, Suicide: What Really Happens in the Afterlife? to you. I found it extremely insightful and it gives you the facts that you need to talk anyone, including yourself, out of ever committing suicide. If you find that you are always surrounded by people who are thinking about suicide, please read this book. It sounds like one of your missions in life is to help suicidal people so the better educated you are on the topic, the more assistance you will be to them. If you can't afford the book or something, please let me know so I can help you get it.
Also, you can write to me if you need help.
You will likely feel better about your own issues if you start helping other people with their problems. It seems to help to take the focus off of our issues.
I had a friend named Lon Stewart who killed himself in 1993. We were close friends and hung out a lot. I didn't know there was anything wrong with him (other than his usual quirks and mood swings). His suicide note indicated that he had found out that he had contracted HIV. Back then that was a death sentence so I guess he decided to go ahead and get out while he was in good health. He was bi-sexual. At the time, I was a Christian so it was very upsetting to me to think that he was in hell. He loved that song "Constant Craving" by K.D. Lang so now whenever I hear it I think of him.
The reason that it's not a good idea to commit suicide is because you will regret it in a bad way once you are "dead". Ron was feeling depressed the other day and he had a very vivid dream that night. In his dream, he was reliving past lives where he had committed suicide. In one life, he shot himself in the head with a revolver. He thought that by killing himself his pain would end instantly and it would all be over. That wasn't how things went though. Instead, it took an eternity for the bullet to go through the air and pierce his skull and brain and go through his brain. All the while he is realizing the horrible mistake he has made and understanding that there is no "end". He explained all this much better and I plan to have him put it on video since it's the most compelling anti-suicide vision I've ever heard.
In the next life, he was planning to kill himself by jumping in front of a train. He was in the middle of nowhere and the train was coming. He was so depressed and he couldn't see any reason to carry on living. As the train came closer, he stepped out in front of it. Then time slowed down again. Every second felt like years, stretching out into eternity. He realized his horrible mistake, and not only that but he also remembered his past life when he had shot himself in the head and relived THAT suicide in slow motion also. He not only felt the train as it dragged him along the track in super-slow agonizing motion, but he saw it from above at the same time, AND he saw all of this from the train conductor's point of view and felt all the horrible emotions that the conductor went through knowing that he had killed someone with his train. These horrible feelings stretched on and on and on forever.
When he finally awoke, he was pretty disturbed by these dreams. He realized that he had screwed up and committed suicide in life after life after life. He understood that he was being given about the biggest hint that you could be given so that he wouldn't make the same mistake again. The only bigger hint they could have given him is if an angel had floated down and appeared in front of him and told him that suicide is a choice that he will severely regret making.
He's going to make a video of this story so that I can share it on the website and on YouTube. I think it's one of the more compelling experiences that I have heard from anyone on why you shouldn't commit suicide. The book I mentioned also has a lot of compelling experiences, mostly from people who have committed suicide and have come back (through a psychic or channeler) to tell about their experience after they died. If you believe in the validity of psychic channeling, you will definitely NOT ever want to commit suicide after reading this.
That link takes you to Amazon.com where you can read reviews of the book and see if you'd like to read it.
Love and blessings,
Since your life has been touched by suicide so much I really want to recommend the book, Suicide: What Really Happens in the Afterlife? to you. I found it extremely insightful and it gives you the facts that you need to talk anyone, including yourself, out of ever committing suicide. If you find that you are always surrounded by people who are thinking about suicide, please read this book. It sounds like one of your missions in life is to help suicidal people so the better educated you are on the topic, the more assistance you will be to them. If you can't afford the book or something, please let me know so I can help you get it.
Also, you can write to me if you need help.
You will likely feel better about your own issues if you start helping other people with their problems. It seems to help to take the focus off of our issues.
I had a friend named Lon Stewart who killed himself in 1993. We were close friends and hung out a lot. I didn't know there was anything wrong with him (other than his usual quirks and mood swings). His suicide note indicated that he had found out that he had contracted HIV. Back then that was a death sentence so I guess he decided to go ahead and get out while he was in good health. He was bi-sexual. At the time, I was a Christian so it was very upsetting to me to think that he was in hell. He loved that song "Constant Craving" by K.D. Lang so now whenever I hear it I think of him.
The reason that it's not a good idea to commit suicide is because you will regret it in a bad way once you are "dead". Ron was feeling depressed the other day and he had a very vivid dream that night. In his dream, he was reliving past lives where he had committed suicide. In one life, he shot himself in the head with a revolver. He thought that by killing himself his pain would end instantly and it would all be over. That wasn't how things went though. Instead, it took an eternity for the bullet to go through the air and pierce his skull and brain and go through his brain. All the while he is realizing the horrible mistake he has made and understanding that there is no "end". He explained all this much better and I plan to have him put it on video since it's the most compelling anti-suicide vision I've ever heard.
In the next life, he was planning to kill himself by jumping in front of a train. He was in the middle of nowhere and the train was coming. He was so depressed and he couldn't see any reason to carry on living. As the train came closer, he stepped out in front of it. Then time slowed down again. Every second felt like years, stretching out into eternity. He realized his horrible mistake, and not only that but he also remembered his past life when he had shot himself in the head and relived THAT suicide in slow motion also. He not only felt the train as it dragged him along the track in super-slow agonizing motion, but he saw it from above at the same time, AND he saw all of this from the train conductor's point of view and felt all the horrible emotions that the conductor went through knowing that he had killed someone with his train. These horrible feelings stretched on and on and on forever.
When he finally awoke, he was pretty disturbed by these dreams. He realized that he had screwed up and committed suicide in life after life after life. He understood that he was being given about the biggest hint that you could be given so that he wouldn't make the same mistake again. The only bigger hint they could have given him is if an angel had floated down and appeared in front of him and told him that suicide is a choice that he will severely regret making.
He's going to make a video of this story so that I can share it on the website and on YouTube. I think it's one of the more compelling experiences that I have heard from anyone on why you shouldn't commit suicide. The book I mentioned also has a lot of compelling experiences, mostly from people who have committed suicide and have come back (through a psychic or channeler) to tell about their experience after they died. If you believe in the validity of psychic channeling, you will definitely NOT ever want to commit suicide after reading this.
That link takes you to Amazon.com where you can read reviews of the book and see if you'd like to read it.
Love and blessings,
