Anthropic Principle and Religion

[JuniperBerry]

http://odinicriteofaustralia.wordpress. ... y-science/

[JuniperBerry]

So no one cares, huh? Heh. blue_dozey

[Traumwandlerin]

Really, I just was to lazy to click on a link, where is not even a short description of what I will read, a small summary or anything. Just title and link? No, I never click those Just try to explain why I and maybe other didn't click. I have clicked the topic though, because I thought this would be interesting, but just a link to an article is nothing I'd like to discuss

[JuniperBerry]

Ah.

Well, I was too lazy to do more than add a link, but since I want you to do something for me, I guess I'll budge.


It's an argumentic for the Anthorpic principle, which disagrees with the Big Bang theory, and how several religions ( mainly Odinism since it's an Odinist site) confirm this new/contrary theory of the Universe.

[One Walker]

Didn't see this until now. It's an interesting read in an abstract sort of way. Another part of that eternal struggle with physical and spiritual trying to reconcile with each other, or dominate each other. Beyond that I don't have an opinion.

One Walker.

[Traumwandlerin]

Well, I've read it. It wasn't new in the outline and I wasn't interested in the mytholgical aspects. Yeah, Big Bang Theroy allows the universe to exist in cycles (if we don't count baby universes, multiple universes and the like in account), that's nothing new. The whole cycle thing isn't new and many religions had an idea about those cycles in the universe.

But I didn't find where the theories disagree with the Big Bang Theory. Maybe I read to fast?

[JuniperBerry]

One Walker, aside from Christianity, I don't think most pagan religions struggle with reconciling science and myth. At least, heathenry doesn't. There's been a few comments on how Hawkings is a heathen and doesn't know it; the cosmology of heathenry (creation myth) is so impressive and so complex that it does attract some of the more scientific minded people. I know of PHd in Denmark looking for a research team to investigate the Beehive theory according to the Yggdrasil world tree myth (invisible universes, networking, etc.) It's one facet of heathenry that I find fascinating.

Traumwanderlin, it might not be in that specific article that states that Anthropic Principle is contrary to the Big Bang theory. If I understand it right, (which I probably don't and thats exactly why I wanted to open this discussion up for people that do), Anthropic Principle states that there isn't a big bang but a cycle of blackholes growing in density until they explode out again to create galaxies. Or rather than the big bang expanding outwards, it's these constant little explosions that propel the universe.

I think?

[Traumwandlerin]

Asfar as I know, the anthropic principle is just the easy answer to the question why there is life in this universe. And the answer is Multiple universes were created during Big Bang or whatever Theory of Origin you have. In this universe the laws where the way that life could exist and know we observe the universe with the laws that were provideing life. It's not about someone created the universe that way, but rather one of the millions of universes that were able to create life created life which is now able to question everything

Of course you can even take a broader approach and state it was only a superposition of multiple universe and the first concious mind let this superposition collapse into the only universe that could provide life. Since this was a measurement. That's a bit on the quantum mechanical side, but I also think that's a bit farstretched ^^ But a nice story anyway. In this story we would have created ourselves.

[JuniperBerry]

Asfar as I know, the anthropic principle is just the easy answer to the question why there is life in this universe. And the answer is Multiple universes were created during Big Bang or whatever Theory of Origin you have.

Ok...I sort of have my theory about the multi-verse and gods. Is it string or M theory that proposes we're bumping into other Universes (Universi?) every second? Why can't there be life in these Universe, that are aware of us, and affect us? Why can't the gods, the different planes of existence/realms/ world tree worlds, be existant in those?

Of course you can even take a broader approach and state it was only a superposition of multiple universe and the first concious mind let this superposition collapse into the only universe that could provide life. Since this was a measurement. That's a bit on the quantum mechanical side, but I also think that's a bit farstretched ^^ But a nice story anyway. In this story we would have created ourselves.

I suppose this is where it 'confirms' heathen mythology then, in that the gods created a universe for us and life. Hm.

[Traumwandlerin]

It doesn't conform it in any way. It would rather do the opposite. There is no need of a God in this universe. All universes existed at the same time as a superposition. Those things are unstabil and collapse when a measurement takes place. All possible univeres and how they could possibly develope where interfering with eych other, but in none were a living being. Until the very first universe created the first thought that observed the universe. Then the superpositin collapsed and only the universe with the thought existed. It destroyed all the possibilities. And this thought would probably not being the thought of a God. It was more likely some really underdeveloped life. And all the ther universes ceased to exist.

And I really don't know what you mean with universes bumping into each others. Both theories you've mentioned are saying nothing aout bumping universes, at least not as far as I know. I guess you've probably read this second or third handed. Like oral tradition, the second didn't know what was important in the first place, changed bits and the third just added a few interesting details and the forth is telling stories about bumping universes.

But really I didn't understand the whole answer their. Maybe I just got you wrong.

[JuniperBerry]

It would confirm the Odinic notion that 'god' didn't create the universe but that the universe created gods. If I'm understanding the author correctly.

M-theory, as I'm sure you know, works in some ways to explain a mutliverse. Since gravity is such a strong force, but easily manipulated (such as being able to raise your arm) it's thought that gravity here on earth is being diluted by the presence of other universes co-existing within our space.

[Traumwandlerin]

Ah, ok, I didn't know enough about heathenism, obviously But I don't see how the Gods were created that way, but I either don't see how they couldn't have been created. Nothing against Gods there

And about gravity influencing all the universes, that's kind of the superposition of the universes I talked aboout above. But I'm thinking, if we look closer into Gravity, if this superposition will collapse, too. And what this would mean to our universe. Like when Higgs will be measured the first time (which is highly connected to Gravity). Or is the LHC doing an indirect measuring, like it's done with Gravity?

[JuniperBerry]

Or how Dark Flow plays into it.

Still, I like how Dark FLOW plays into the notions of the rivers of creation in Heathenry. Why, yes, I will twist it all to fit into my world view. Why do you ask?

[Traumwandlerin]

Did I ask? *looks at her own writing* I thought it was so obvious, I won't need to write it down. Dark Flow? Are you just making things up? I know Dark Matter and Dark Energy, but Dark Flow would be obviouly a cool mix between Heathenry and Physics. But you can say that energy is flowing, there are lots of theories were you use the mathematic models of flowing stuff for energy transport, like rivers (but not restricted, too). Just to give your believe a bit more fuel

[JuniperBerry]

*Giggles* Lost in translation, Traum. It's just a saying. I was anticipating a question and answering it in a self-deprecating manner.


Dark flow is the motion of matter moving in peculiar ways, that appears to be influenced by something outside our galaxy, maybe a sister universe and it's gravity.