Physics + magick, Traumwandlerin?!

[shadowx]

I say Traumwandlerin since i know she/he is a lecturer of physics but if anyone has any input dont feel excluded

As many of you know i am scientific in my approach to magick and i have found a website claiming to also be scientific however i am unsure of the basic principal on which the site is based, he is talking about how electrons can move between atoms:

They can migrate from one atom, to the next, and the next. However, as one electron migrates from an atom, that atom takes on a free electron from yet another atom. This chain goes on in an endless manner, and serves to demonstrate the idea of balance in nature, where the imbalance is removed by equalizing the electron to proton ratio.

I was under the impression that electrons move between atoms in two ways, one is via inducing electromagnetic forces (IE electricity) thus providing a stream of electrons which leapfrogs along the conductor, or via chemical reactions whereby electrons are released or shared between atoms to form chemical bonds.

I did not believe that atoms are freely shared without causing, or being moved by, electromagnetic fields?

He is suggesting that if were to place two stones in an electro-magnetic field free zone (deep space within a faraday cage for example) and placed them next to each other electrons would be shared freely between them:

The free electrons from the atoms that make me up are shared with the air I breathe, the ground I walk on, and every solid object near me. And yes, they're even shared with other people.

he also suggests they can travel over small distances, which i know electrons can but not in this manner i believe?

Of course if this is the case it could have some implications as to how and what i think of the universe so an answer would be great

[Serendipity]

I don’t have any degrees in any of the sciences but I think this individual is wrong about many things (though it is hard to be sure, for someone with my limited understanding of such things, as there is very little information in the quotes) and making a lot of assumptions without support for those assumptions. He’s done what a lot of scientists used to do. Taken a small amount of incomplete information and filled in what facts he doesn’t have with personal opinions to create theories he can’t support.

I think there is a relationship between science and magic and I am working on a piece for the board about it. I’ll probably have it ready by Thursday or Friday.

[shadowx]

Linky: http://www.realmagick.com/articles/43/2043.html

That is the article in question, forgot to link it.

I dont have any degrees but i would say i know, or rather understand, more than the average joe.

[Traumwandlerin]

If I understood him right in your quote he is talking about molecular/electon-diffusion. There is nothing wrong it, this obviously happens. But it happens in different ratios dependent on the material. Molecular diffusion happens a lot in gas but is rare on solid material, but it still happens there. Electron diffusion happens a lot were you've got electron "gas" like in metal but it's rare on other materials. It still happens.

The process is induced, since everything got a ground energy, nothing stands still but everything is moving (like with brown movement). This leads to a certain probability of diffusion in dependence of the energy level of things and the potentials they are moving in.

So if you are not purely out of gas you won't exchange many electrons with air. If you and other people are not purely out of the same metal without the smallest dirt on it, you won't exchange any measurable amount of electrons.


And even if you would constantly exchange electrons through diffusion, they wouldn't be able to transport any information or energy. And "electrons are nothing more than energy in motion" is just really, really wrong on so many levels. Electrons are materia with a certain energy level *sighs*.

Whatever magic is, it's surely not transported through electrons ^^ Otherwise you could just measure it and would have been proofen decades ago. Also, I hate when people just read up their knowledge based on school literature and then go and make broad and stupid assumptions based on the believe that no real scientist have ever thought about this problem and therfeore you don't need studying. *sighs*

[shadowx]

I guess he is talking in lamens terms with regards to electrons being energy, they are and they arent i suppose.

They are the carriers of energy (if i understand correctly) but they arent energy themselves, they merely carry the field of energy... methinks?

Thanks for clearing that up though, i did think it a little simplistic, like you said if this was indeed the case i am sure we could stick a witch in the LHC and use the detectors to find electrons zooming out of their hands

Although... Assuming there is a magickal energy (which of course i do believe) then surely there must be a field carrier? Much like the photon carries light. If i understand the theories correctly every force has an associated carrier particle in which case, unless magick exploits a fairly major loop of physics that we dont know of yet there must be a "magick" particle.

Anyhoo, question answered, thanks! As i suspected his research isnt quite there.

[Traumwandlerin]

I would go with quantum loop theory, where the whole universe is constructed of some kind of net and magick somehow changes the net. Buuuhuuhhuut I'm no expert on this special theory, so maybe now I'm the uninformed jerk who just has no clue and meddles with physicy she didn't understand ^^ But this theory would fit nicely in my picture of the world ^^

I also just like Quantum Loops more than String Theory ^^