Responding to Blessed May You Be

[Blessed May You Be]

BMYB
I have more than a passing intrest in particle physics. Your fixation with the term atoms is puzzling to me. What of dark matter? Can't be seen , yet it makes up most of the universe.

Then you should know that dark matter is actually now believed not to exist at all. How is that for a non-particle physicist?

No one can answer the most important questions for you. Anyone who says they KNOW is trying to sell you something.

I don't understand this point. Please elaborate.

[Blessed May You Be]

That's your personal belief. I've stated mine in my quote above. So we'll have to agree to disagree
Maybe you can describe the Divine? I know it has to be truly experienced to actually even begin to put it into words, and even then, words seem so useless.

Then what use is it of me defining the Divine when you're already belittling the fact that I haven't "truly experienced" it?

When I said "I can see that now, but never could before." The word "see" doesn't necessarily mean to see with your eyes, ya know.

That's the impression you gave. I do apologise nonetheless.

Like I said in my quote above - "Ok. You asking some pretty "deep" question that cannot be answered on fact, we can only go on what we feel. This is where peoples beliefs come in, and since you were asking what I believe in I've tried to explain mine to you. My beliefs are backed by many Pagans but this does not make them the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, nor does this make them believable to you.

Fair enough, your belief. I just didn't quite capture " since you were asking what I believe in I've tried to explain mine to you" before. Now I do understand.

Exactly my point Your God is Science! Mine is far from Science. This is where we hit a brick hall.....I'm working on a Spiritual level and you're working on a Scientific one.

You keep on segragating Science from a "Spiritual level". I don't do that. I merge the two together. That's what I've been attempting to tell you. I'm not "working on a "Scientific one", I'm merely stating that we can describe the Divine in Scientific terms. Yes indeed, I concur with you when we're trying to describe it spiritually, it may be "indescribable", but physically wise I believe we can describe it scientifically. That's probably our mutual misinterpretation. If so, you have my apologies.

You wouldn't know what I mean by the word "knowing" unless you were me. So call it what you want.

And I'm supposed to guess what "knowing" means to you? Defining it would be logical.

Your opinion. How ever, you've totally missed the boat (this whole thread you've totally missed it) but that's just my opinion, and anyway

I agree, highly subjective. The fact of the matter is as well as giving you my opinions on the subject, I am also trying to discover what a Pagan means to you and other people. But I guess you missed the bus, train, boat and the whole entire journey.

there will be many other boats that come by your way in the future, its just if you want to jump on one.......

I can't really state you're being sarcastic here because I could be misinterpreting you, but hey, it sure sounds like it. If it makes you feel better.......

Wow, I would of never guessed it

Be brave and tell me you're been HIGHLY sarcastic. Honestly, I feel completely stunned by you last comment.

[Broadsword]

I'm not a physicist, I'm a Witch. As a Witch I study many things. I think you may be mistaking dark matter for dark energy, but that's not really the point.

The point is...
I know what is true FOR ME.
Enlightenment knows what's true FOR HER.

As for your truth... that's yours to figure out.

Good Luck

[Sobek]

lol, you guys are getting a little snippy.


it's fine that you like to mix science, but what i think Enlightenments view on this is and i agree, that science, at present, can explain or even confirm much of what we believe. its a matter of faith, alot of us believe the things we do because certain experiences lead is to these whether you want to view it as divine influence or just a feeling you get thats a part of what comes, if you can successfully blend spirituality and science in a way they compliment each other good on you.

one last thing...if a person has to tell you they are being sarcastic it kind of takes away the oomph of it, i think we get Enlightenments sarcasm without her needing to say it. Basically it comes down th whether you'd prefer a little sarcasm or possibly some heavy insults

[Blessed May You Be]

I think you may be mistaking dark matter for dark energy, but that's not really the point.

The ether and dark matter are closely believed to probably not exist at all. So one cannot confirm such existence and state that it exists but yet it cannot be detected. It remains a theory.

The point is...
I know what is true FOR ME.
Enlightenment knows what's true FOR HER.

As for your truth... that's yours to figure out.
Good Luck

Of course. We all ultimately believe what is best for us, but this thread wasn't only created to assert such thing. Instead, this thread was fundemantally created to discuss spiritualism and paganism, perhaps accompanied by a good few questions posed to me, exploring my beliefs in Christianism.

I thank you for your wishes.

[Blessed May You Be]

Basically it comes down th whether you'd prefer a little sarcasm or possibly some heavy insults

If she confirms her last possible sarcasm is actually valid and true, I actually deem it as heavily insulting. Surely you won't see me go around the forum mocking people's personal spiritual experiences. That is remarkably low.

[[ForestWitch]]

Well, on the topic of science and spirituality, I would caution anyone who hasn't studied particle physics and string theory RECENTLY not to assume that there's no correlation between science and spirituality. As I've been reading more recent theories I can't help but be struck by how closely they parallel spiritual beliefs that have been held for centuries.

I'm curious, though, BMYB, about your certainty that dark matter doesn't exist. I guess I thought that, while the jury is still out, there have been some pretty recent findings that support the case FOR it's existence. I'm certainly no expert, so if you know of recent findings disproving it's existence, maybe you can point me to where I can read about them.

[[Enlightenment]]

Basically it comes down th whether you'd prefer a little sarcasm or possibly some heavy insults

If she confirms her last possible sarcasm is actually valid and true, I actually deem it as heavily insulting. Surely you won't see me go around the forum mocking people's personal spiritual experiences. That is remarkably low.

Yes, I was being sarcastic. I just can't help my sick sense of humour, it just comes out Don't take it personally though, really, don't.

[hedge*]

Spirituality is a personal thing and whilst SOME people share similar methods of experiencing it, it is also true to say that other people will experience it in a diferent way.
There is no right or wrong.
Science cannot prove religion, that has to be the most absurd thing I've heard in ages. The biggest portion of religion is faith. How can you prove faith?
You can't.
Faith is the undoubting knowledge and safe guard that the higher power in this universe knows what it's doing and will guide you and protect you, if there was proof of this then needing to have faith wouldn't matter and consequently would render most religions obsolete.

BMYB I wonder if you're confusing religion with magic and witchcraft?

[Blessed May You Be]

Science cannot prove religion, that has to be the most absurd thing I've heard in ages. The biggest portion of religion is faith. How can you prove faith?

I did not make such a statement. I don't know where you got that impression from but I certainly did not assert "Science can prove religion". Instead I shared the fact that I believe the Divine can be physically described by science, especially when addressing spirits. Once again, I merge the Divine with Science.

BMYB I wonder if you're confusing religion with magic and witchcraft?

No, I'm not.

[Blessed May You Be]

I'm curious, though, BMYB, about your certainty that dark matter doesn't exist.

You are making bold assertions here, ForestWitch. I am not certain with respect to dark matter not existing for sure. I prefer to advice people on being cautious to state that it does exist. It remains a theory with some institutions such as Nasa believing it does exist, but other physicists working in some Universities denying its existence, prefering the old ether theory over dark matter.

[Sercee]

Holy crap, I take off for a couple of days and this runs right off! I haven't even responded to the last one I read yet! LOL

I have to sort through this and add in my two cents... I'll get that in later today, though I'm not sure I need to!

[[cosmo]]

BMYB. I'm not going to take the time nor the energy to quote every little thing that everyone just said but I will offer my perspective on the dilemma and you can take it however you want. Like it or not science doesn't explain everything. I think your scientific approach is however a good thing. Its good to question, test the waters so to speak. The occult is somewhat of a science, more so than it is a religion in many respects. Paganism is of course a religion or to some at least a religion of sorts. They both address questions that simply cannot be answered in a traditional scientific respect but by intuition and formula much like science itself. What is most important here is finding something that works for you because much of what you learn when you begin to enage your own experience is meant for you and you alone and probably wouldn't make much sense to anyone if you tried to explain it logically. So take it down a thousand and listen, look and feel. You might find the answers that you were looking for were right there the entire time.

[[cosmo]]

Also, here's a couple of books you might want to take a look at.

Modern Magick by Donald Michael Craig
Fingerprint of the Gods by Grahm Handcock

The latter examines the possiblity that ancient man possessed a forgotten technology that allowed them to map the entire surface of the earth including Antarctica before it was covered with ice some 15,000 years ago, sort of a science vs science sort of thing. Fascinating.

[hedge*]

I believe the Divine can be physically described by science, especially when addressing spirits. Once again, I merge the Divine with Science.

Stating that the divine can be physically described by science boils down to the same thing in my eyes, it lessens the whole aspect of faith, and as faith is a HUGE part of a lot of the worlds religions then it kind of becomes obsolete when things become proven.

The only reason I questioned as to whether you were confusing magic with religion is because a lot of what you have allready talked about in this topic coincides with magic and the science of magic.