Conservative Christian Ignorance About Wiccans

[The Judge]

I know this news is about two years old but I wanted to get some of your oppinions on the topic.

I've been reading up on news about what is going on between the conservitive Christians and Pagans and i was wondering how others felt about their blatent disregard and misunderstanding of Wicca that comes from ignorance. All I've read so far is on the events regarding Ft. Hood, TX and the christians who were protesting about the practicing Wiccans on post. As a soldier this kinda touched base with me, though I'm fairly sure that isn't going on to such a degree anymore.

Now, excluding the obvious breach of the 1st ammendment, what have they truly accomplished?

I also noticed out of all the religions in the world conservative Christians are the only ones speeking out agianst Wiccans.

I'm trying not to step on toes here but I found the best way to understand why someone does what they do is to talk to them and work it out rationaly. I'm open to both sides as I will likely get them anyway and anything anyone has to say may help others to understand whats going on here.

I just wanted to add that I also found alot of what they did and politicians said where somewhat humorous. Espescially some of the quotes from US Rep. Bob Barr. You can find this stuff at

http://www.religioustolerance.org/burn_aw2.htm

Well this is long enough and I've probably annoyed a few already so I'm going to sign off for now. Thanks for any replies.

[Eretik]

"I also noticed out of all the religions in the world conservative Christians are the only ones speeking out agianst Wiccans. "

That's not true Judge,Judaism and Islam both speak out about Wicca,although with Islam it's Witchcraft and not so much specifically Wicca alone.Judaism has a more tolerant approach than the other two,but they still don't like it much,though at least they are educated on the topic.

[hedge*]

I've learned to ignore it.

I'm trying not to step on toes here but I found the best way to understand why someone does what they do is to talk to them and work it out rationaly. I'm open to both sides as I will likely get them anyway and anything anyone has to say may help others to understand whats going on here.

What a lot of people forget is that religion is personal and based around an individuals spirituality - yes there are certain aspects that draw people togther on similar spiritual paths (Christianity, Wicca, Muslim) - but no two spiritual paths are identical.

So many people forget this and get caught up in the politics....which could all be a part of their spiritual journey anyway.

*smile

[The Judge]

I haven't gotten to anything on Islam or Judaism. Eretik if you could can I get a site for this stuff I think it culod be interesting. Thanks.

[juliaki]

I've had Hindus come up to me and say that they don't agree with my practice of witchcraft as well, as it is an abomination to the divine.

[The Judge]

I guess there is alot of opposition here but it doesn't really bother me if their polite and respectful about it, you know approach like a civilized being instead of berating you from afar. The little things count talk to us and people learn something about us and have a different oppinion but those that just make assumptions well, we all know what those kind of assumptions do: learned this phrase in the Army but found it catchy.

"We all know what assuming does, it makes an ass out of you and me":-D

If you dont get it just let me know I'll explain it, the hint is it's in the spelling of the word Assume.

[Eretik]

Sure Judge.I wasreading an article recently on Judaism and the influx of Wiccan belief in younger Jews.It was sensitive and well articulated,a rarity in these days,I hope I can track it for you,I should have bookmarked it.Oops.Islam should be easier.Islam is a little strange on some areas,compared to the other Abrahamics,Islam denotes a belief in Djinn and that some Djinn are followers of the Prophet[Good Djinn] but it still proscribes magick.More later.

[Eretik]

http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philos ... udaism.asp

This is not the article I was talking of, but it is A Jewish perspective.I'll hunt sown the other one,it was an interesting read,a plea for tolerance,actually.

[Eretik]

Jinn in pre-Islamic era
Amongst archaeologists dealing with ancient Middle Eastern cultures, any spirit lesser than God is often referred to as a “Djinn”, especially when describing stone reliefs or other forms of art. This practice draws on the original meaning of the term genie for simply a spirit of any sort.

Epigraphic Evidence

Inscriptions found in Northwestern Arabia seem to indicate worship of Djinn, or at least their tributory status. For instance, an inscription from Beth Fasi'el near Palmyra pays tribute to the "Ginnaye", the "good and rewarding gods"[4] providing a sharp resemblance to the Latin Genius and Juno: The Guardian Spirits.

Folklore

Types of Djinn include the ghul (“night shade”, which can change shape), the sila (which cannot change shape), the Ifrit IPA: [iˈfɾɪt], and “Marid” [mʌˈɾɪd]. From information in The Arabian Nights, Marid seem to be the strongest form of Djinn, followed by Ifrit, and then the rest of the Djinn.

In the mid-east it is believed that the Djinn were spirits of smoke-less fire, although sometimes they associated them with succubi (demons in the forms of beautiful women). The feminine form of Djinn is “jinniyah” or “jinneyeh”.


Djinn in Islam
The Djinn are said to be creatures with free will, made from 'smokeless fire' by God (the literal translation being “subtle fire”, i.e., a fire which does not give itself away through smoke), much in the same way humans were made of earth. According to the Qur'an, Djinn have free choice, and Iblis used this freedom in front of God by refusing to bow to Adam when God told Iblis to do so. By refusing to obey God’s order he was thrown out of the Paradise and called “Shaitan” (See Shaitan and Satan). In the Qur'an, Djinn are frequently mentioned and Sura 72 of the Qur'an named Al-Jinn is entirely about them. Another Sura (Al-Naas) mentions the Djinn in the last verse. In fact, it is mentioned in the Qur'an that Muhammad was sent as a prophet to both “humanity and the Djinn”.

The Djinn are believed to have communities much like human societies: they eat, marry, die, etc. They are believed to live in tribes have boundaries, to follow religions as humans do, and follow the same ranks in armies as humans do. Because they are massless and can be fit into any space, some believe Djinns can settle into any location, from a vast area (like a Universe), to a tiny hole, (like a lamp). It is believed that they are invisible to humans, but that they can see humans. Some believe that they occasionally, accidentally or deliberately, come into view or into contact with humans. Djinn are believed to live much longer than humans: some of whom are said to be still alive having seen Muhammad (who lived during the 7th century). Furthermore, many believe that Djinn have learned to assimilate into the human world when they desire to do so, and that in many cases they live unnoticed among people marked only by the rather unusual or somewhat secretive practises they keep. It is also thought that Djinn can take on the form of humans and other animals but they can not take on the form of prophets and 12 Imams of Islam. They can also be summoned by humans it is believedConsidered haraam in Islam, humans attempting to perform black magic on other humans, would call a Djinn specializing in dirty deeds to perform the magic. Such black magic on humans, (such as to influence a marriage to end in divorce, etc) can only be undertaken by dark Djinni. Thus, a person would pay a magician, who would then calls upon a dark Djinn, who would then perform the magic.

http://www.islamawareness.net/Jinn/


Islam sees magick as 'shirk' or unholiness/sin.

[Broken2nite]

*sighs* It makes me so sad when my fellow Christians do things like this. Though, in our defense, it's usually the fundamentalist nuts who tend to do this, and it gives us all bad names.

I dunno. I consider myself a Christian because I believe in Jesus as CHrist my savior, God, and the whole kitten-caboodle, BUT I also believe that other religions have marrit. There is only one religion that I have disagreed with outright, and I've NEVER openly bashed it or said anything negative about it in the sort simply because that's not my place.

I definately believe in religious tolerance, because in my eyes it shouldn't even be tolerance at all, its just accepting the fact that other people have different views and you should really just get over that. I understand exactly why a lot of Christians speak out against things that are different though, and honestly, it has nothing to do with the fact that it's in the Bible or whatever stupid reason they can come up with: It's because their scared. The thought that you may just be wrong about what you believe and where you're going after you die is a very scary thing. They speak out because it's like reaffirming their own beliefs because in the back of their mind, their thinking "What if their right and I'm wrong?" It all comes down to faith, I suppose.

I've always called myself an UnOrthodox Christian, and I've gotten into plenty debates with Christians because at one time I used to wear a cross and a pentagram on the same necklace, to symbolize everything I think that has merit and unity and ect., and some people didn't appreciate it.

I dunno what I'm trying to say. I guess, please don't get too much of a negative view on Christianity. Some of us really aren't all that bad

[Eretik]

There are fundamentalists in all faiths Broken2nite.I like Unorthodox Christianity.I tend to like all things unorthodox anyway,fresh thinking interests me,all across the board and actually a lot of the unorthodox is very similar to Gnostic and Celtic sects of Christianity which were persecuted by the Church of Rome:the orthodox.

[The Judge]

I don't have a negative view on christianity the rest of my living family are christians I just think starting these kinds of conversations will help others express their concerns and we can all come to an understanding. These conversations can also answer questions others may have on the issue instead of going around blindly. It helps some people because some don't like asking questions and jut look for the answer themselves, I'm the same way I've just found ways to compromise with myself/Swallow my pride and ask for help. Anyway, I understand what groups are the most likely to put pagans and other religions down I just don't have a complete list and I apologize if it seemedlike I was singling anyone out it was unintentional and I'm sorry. I just used the most prominent major religion that was in the news doing these things and in no way meant they they were the only ones or that it was all of them. I know alot of good people from alotof different religions and we just had to talk outour differences and it cleared up most of the movierelated crap they people still assocciate with the term "Witch". Any I'm rambling so I'll jump off here, I'll typeat you later.

[amunptah777]

True dat'

This link was on that page, also quite informative.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm#relig

Thet

[hedge*]

Good links Eretik - I've had a little look around both them and book marked them to come back to later.
Religious Tolerance is a very good site amunptah.

[Eretik]

I found a page on Jewish witchcraft,whenIwas looking for info.today.Here it is.It is from one person's perspective,but I thought it might be interesting.


http://jewitch.blogspot.com/

It's a blog,with book recommendations, but there are lots of sidebar articles and information.