Egyptian Pantheon

For discussion and questions about Gods and Goddesses.

Which would be the lady?

Isis
12
75%
Bast
4
25%
 
Total votes: 16

jcrowfoot
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Post by jcrowfoot »

Yes, it's VERY VERY easy to get confused. Because all these things are dictated by the local cult and temple. People have this nice shiny idea of a unified Egyptian religion... when it was actually a bunch of related stories with the "Two Cups and a String Telephone" problem.

I studied books that you don't find just walking into Borders... the University of Michigan Graduate Library was one of my favorite browsing destinations when I was in High School. I studied with an archeologist for over a year, and worked in a museum with a fine collection of Egyptian antiquities.

Uh, and for some of this stuff knowing how to read German really helps.

So I'm a SLIGHT Geek... possibly edging into NERD territory. :P

The nature and disposition of Bast and Sekhmet in particular are also based on personal gnosis... Sekhmet and Bast have visited me in times past.
amunptah777

.

Post by amunptah777 »

Ha! That's awesome!

Of course, Sakhmat could throw a party, but it would be more like a death metal festival with beer and bruises than a lovely social gathering with wine and cheese :)


I'd have to disagree that Isis as "Over Mother" was a Roman invention.

While syncretization always makes my skin crawl just a little, there's ample evidence that ancient Kemet had already completed the social process of "Goddess absorbing" of most others to Isis before the Middle Kingdom.

In terms of Shakti, I'd say that Heka is Shakti...verses any one Goddess.

True about Ma'at. While not trying to disrespect Disciple, I will say that I view Ma'at more as a force of nature than standard "goddess". (Not that I don't view the rest of the Goddesses that way) ;)

Disciple, do you have any evidence of a temple to Her other than at Karnak?

I actually feel the same way about Amunet. :)

Thet
Eretik
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Post by Eretik »

Death metal beer and bruises,sounds like my last night out,yehah!My kind of party.
Arcane
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Post by Arcane »

Isis.
jcrowfoot
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Post by jcrowfoot »

Thet, I actually agree with you about Ma'at. She may have a physical presence in archeology; there may be bizarre rumors of her being Thehuti's wife, but... shes more force of nature. Being the betting type, I'd say that she can probably manifest a more embodied form, but it's... sort of like seeing the tardis... bigger on the inside than on the outside. I mean no disrespect despite the potentially humorous sci-fi reference.

My personal theory is that if Thehjuti is married to Ma'at it's likely that he's married to her in a similar way that nuns are married to Jesus.

I even have a freaked out theory that Thehjuti took his revenge on the Catholics by inspiring the Jesuits.... :P


Um, as for Temples of Ma'at, I believe I have heard of others besides Karnak... in fact I recall that ALL legal offices were Temples to Ma'at, and were the only temple that had areas reserved for open public use.
I *think* there's one even from Hat-shep-sut's time, which means it should be in great shape, thanks to a certain arrogant party. Arguably he had reason to be full of himself, and I can't argue with a guy who inadvertently preserves the data of one of the more interesting Pharoahs in history.

There might be one near Aswan... near the water. I have to do some research, and it might take a while. I need to familiarize myself with the U. of Chicago Library system, and find out where they hide their archaeological materials.

Bullitens posted as events warrant.

Oh, and my vote for a Goddess representative would be Hathor. :P

I'm having disturbing reccolections that at some point, somewhere between the New Kingdom and the Old (like, say during the Hittite occupation) Isis and Hathor did the old power meld and even the Egyptians themselves confused them. I could have sworn it was much later, like Late New Kingdom.... but I'll have to look that up. Or maybe it was after old Akhenaten's reign.

Re: Sekhmet...
True. I'd failed to take into account heavy metal, clashing shields, and swords, pomegranite beer, and big bonfires complete with heads on stakes. YEAAAAAH! Hell, I know people who host parties like this. Though the heads aren't usually real. :P There are even live swordfights! I can't believe I didn't *think* of that.
amunptah777

Post by amunptah777 »

JCrow rocks!


All law offices huh? Well that sounds remarkably similar to my current world view that certain secular sites are still basically under the jurisdiction of specific Spirits (thank you Neil Gaiman)

Gay Bars, for example...under the jurisdiction of Sakhmat (as her priesthood was primarily comprised of GLBT persons) (but only if..uhmmm...for lack of a better term, "consecrated")

Oh dear...look...I've gotten off topic again.

Uhm....back to the o.p.'s original q. I'd say neither Asat nor Bast makes a suitable other for and male deity. ;)

Thet
amunptah777

Post by amunptah777 »

Well, I misspoke. Actually, what I've been taught through divination (Praise the NtJr) Is that metal actually falls under the jurisdiction of Nepthys, as , despite it's popularity amoung 'angry young men' it's actually a dirge.
It's music for mourning.

Though I can't say that Sakhmat wouldn't enjoy such revelry, nor can I say that she enjoys the thumpa-thumpa at most gay bars...

When I go to see live metal, I offer Hadab to Nepthys.


Thet
jcrowfoot
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Post by jcrowfoot »

I have also heard Divination credibly placed at the feet of Hathor (using senet peices, or scrying) Thehjuti, and Anubis. Though I'm actually thinking that it was for *actually* for Horus' son (the Jakal headed one) whom is also a credible guide to the underworld...

I believe he seeked out and found souls of the dead when they got lost in the underworld. Or maybe he was one of the guardians of the gates. Blast. It's been too long. Grumble. He was one of the few who could bring the spirit of fire into the dark lands, or something like that.

Thet, remind me what his name was.
Eretik
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Post by Eretik »

Wepwawet [Upuat]?
amunptah777

Post by amunptah777 »

Whep-a-what? hahahaha

The sons of Horus were, in no particular;


The Four Sons Of Horus

Name Protects Head of;

Imsety Liver Human
Hapy Lungs Baboon
Duamutef Stomach Jackal
Qebehsenuef Intestines Falcon

(Though I do not make these 4 ancient priests a part of my personal practice)

:)
Eretik
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Post by Eretik »

Not whep -wa- what? hahaha, but ...........


Wepwawet
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the Great Pyramid exploration project, see The Upuaut Project.
Wepwawet
in hieroglyphs




In Egyptian mythology, Wepwawet (also spelt Upuaut, Wep-wawet, Wepawet, and Ophois) was originally a war god, whose cult centre was Lycopolis, in Upper Egypt. In particular Wepwawet was seen as a scout, going out to clear routes for the army to proceed forward, thus his name, which means opener of the ways, indeed, Wepwawet is depicted on the shedshed, a standard that led armies to battle.

Wepwawet was originally seen as a wolf-god, thus the Greek name of Lycopolis, meaning city of wolves, and it is likely the case that Wepwawet was originally just a symbol of the pharaoh, seeking to attribute himself with wolf-like attributes, that was later deified as a mascot. Likewise, Wepwawet was said to accompany the pharaoh on hunts, in which capacity he was titled (one with) sharp arrow more powerful than the gods.

Over time, the connection to war, and thus to death, lead to Wepwawet also being seen as one who opened the ways to, and through, duat, for the spirits of the dead. Thus this, through also the similarity of the jackal to the wolf, Wepwawet became considered connected to Anubis, eventually becoming considered his son, and seen as a jackal.
In art, Wepwawet was shown as a wolf, or as a jackal, or as a man with the head of a wolf or a jackal. Even when considered a jackal, Wepwawet was usually shown with grey, or white fur, reflecting his lupine origins. He was depicted dressed as a soldier, as well as carrying other military equipment — a mace and a bow.

For what is generally considered to be propaganda purposes of the Pharaohs, a later mythos was briefly circulated claiming that Wepwawet was born at the sanctuary of Wadjet, a location in the heart of Lower Egypt. Consequently, Wepwawet, who had hitherto been the standard of Upper Egypt alone, formed an integral part of royal rituals, symbolizing the unification of Egypt.

Eventually, his identity merged into that of Anubis. So when Anubis, the god of the dead in the Ogdoad belief system, was displaced by Osiris, the god of the dead in the Ennead, Anubis became considered Isis' adopted son, (his "real" mother being Nephthys and his father being Osiris.

So he is Horus' adopted sibling,not son.Hahahaha.Right enough.


http://www.polarissite.net/page29.html

this site seems to suggest that one of Horus' sons served a similar/the same function as Upuat.

http://senytmenu.org/Main.htm#Wepwawet

This one is Kemetic.
jcrowfoot
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Post by jcrowfoot »

Yep. That's the guy I was thinking of. I mixed him up with Horus's son.

Blargh. One of those days, I guess.
amunptah777

Post by amunptah777 »

Quite right.

I've also begun the practice of consciously refering to the Goddesses in the present tense.

I've almost done it a number of times here, referring to "Isis was...." and other such things.

It's a pretty human thing to do...the civilization was so long ago...I think we all have a tendency to refer to their deities as past-tense.

(slaps own wrist...naughty, naughty Thet) :)

Thet
jcrowfoot
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Post by jcrowfoot »

Um, part of the reason why I'm still in that habit is that I would freuqently talk to people working in the anthro-archeological field, so it's second nature to use past tense... I try to pass it off as a way to refer to that time before time.
Heka
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Post by Heka »

alot of people use isis and osiris as the lord and lady. but i dont know. i was really interested in egypt as a wee kiddy and i really loved anubis. i currently have a statue of anubis and bastet on my altar. partly becasue i dont have much else and partly because i relate to them in some strange way. anubis especially.
i think ma'at and thoth is a good one as well but i agree with the idea that ma'at is not a goddess but a essence or something. but you can still pray etc to her in the same way so you could classify her as goddess material.
Blessed Be and Merry Part

Heka

~~~~~~~

Water, my blood...
Earth, my body...
Air, my breath...
Fire, my spirit...
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