What the hell r u talking about jcrow? Jesus?jcrowfoot wrote:It's all the fault of that famous reprieve that made that guy with a radical concept... in religion, shouldn't love be freely given in both directions?
It's still not clear to this day what all is covered in this reprieve.
Can one be a Christian and still believe in wicca philosophy
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amunptah777
O.k., I was trying to stay away from this one, simply because of my personal bias...however;
There are a few key elements which you have to resolve if you want to "choose a team and play"
1. The christian concept of "salvation" and a need for "forgiveness" from "sin"
Paganism needs no such ideals. That's a biggy.
2. While there is an element of dichotomy in the form of the Lord and Lady, Wicca (and other paganisms) for the most part, don't necessarily believe in "good and evil" This is another fundamental difference.
3. Wicca has no messiah, no Keanu Reeves, no one religious text dictating ethical considerations.
In fact, the creed "Harm None, Do what you want" is considered amoral by the church...which, in a turn of irony, finds most Pagans living by this creed more peaceful that many who use...shall we say, other methods of moral dictation.
Is it possible? Sure...Is it advisable? Not so much.
Hope this helps.
Thet
There are a few key elements which you have to resolve if you want to "choose a team and play"
1. The christian concept of "salvation" and a need for "forgiveness" from "sin"
Paganism needs no such ideals. That's a biggy.
2. While there is an element of dichotomy in the form of the Lord and Lady, Wicca (and other paganisms) for the most part, don't necessarily believe in "good and evil" This is another fundamental difference.
3. Wicca has no messiah, no Keanu Reeves, no one religious text dictating ethical considerations.
In fact, the creed "Harm None, Do what you want" is considered amoral by the church...which, in a turn of irony, finds most Pagans living by this creed more peaceful that many who use...shall we say, other methods of moral dictation.
Is it possible? Sure...Is it advisable? Not so much.
Hope this helps.
Thet
I think that's why the christian chruch doesn't aprove. I respect religions and all but I think they're a fabulous way of controlling the public.Arcane wrote:Thats what I like about wicca. If it aint hurtin anyone else do whatever the hell u want. Good stuff.
If you're a priest and homophobic, ban gay people... say God wants it that way, people won't question you!
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amunptah777
Harm None, Have Fun
No offense, but praying causes no harm, meditating causes no harm, moving for the benevolence of all animate beings causes no harm.juliaki wrote:With the caveat that there is absolutely *nothing* in life that you can do that doesn't cause harm.Arcane wrote:Thats what I like about wicca. If it aint hurtin anyone else do whatever the hell u want. Good stuff.
But seriously, the point is to avoid intentional harm and as often as possible, unintentional harm, but that we're all human...hell, even the Jains step on a bug every once in while...
Thet
See, this is where I disagree. I think (and I'm no Christian scholar) that the original message has been twisted over time to involve all kinds of useful codicils and things that made it easier for the later church to do what it did.
I think the point was to try to over-turn the concept of sin.... and impurity. His point was that doing the best you can to overcome your own weaknesses is enough, without the metaphysical angst of the original creation myth. (Most of which came from pagan sources anyway)
Even pagans acknowledge that we have parts of ourselves we don't like... and that they can cause trouble. And trouble is defined by us. We don't like war and killing, so we frown on that, etc... the rest comes from social pressure.
To me, all those sins are the things that those old guys though made social life more complex and frankly difficult. So they just cut out the things that the leaders viewed as disruptive... and made them into orders from God. Oh, and by saying that, I'm not saying I agree with them.
Remember that many of these things defined that way, were defined with local cultural biases in mind...
But again, my analysis is very bizarre, and not especially scholarly.
I think the point was to try to over-turn the concept of sin.... and impurity. His point was that doing the best you can to overcome your own weaknesses is enough, without the metaphysical angst of the original creation myth. (Most of which came from pagan sources anyway)
Even pagans acknowledge that we have parts of ourselves we don't like... and that they can cause trouble. And trouble is defined by us. We don't like war and killing, so we frown on that, etc... the rest comes from social pressure.
To me, all those sins are the things that those old guys though made social life more complex and frankly difficult. So they just cut out the things that the leaders viewed as disruptive... and made them into orders from God. Oh, and by saying that, I'm not saying I agree with them.
Remember that many of these things defined that way, were defined with local cultural biases in mind...
But again, my analysis is very bizarre, and not especially scholarly.
Even prayer and meditation could be harmful in an indirect way if someone is having a heart attack or the house is on fire with a rescue effort going on- prayer and waiting for divine intervention probably not the best course of action at that time. Okay maybe that's extreme and I may like to argue, but there are times when people rely on prayer and overlook practical things. You can argue that some forms of rape may be entirely permissible under the golden rule too- Christians do not like that one.
If the OP still around- you may be interested in the writings of Edgar Cayce. He was a famous Christian psychic, who I think was legitimate. He spent a lot of time with bible study and determining if his abilities were consistent with his Christian beliefs.
Kolohe
If the OP still around- you may be interested in the writings of Edgar Cayce. He was a famous Christian psychic, who I think was legitimate. He spent a lot of time with bible study and determining if his abilities were consistent with his Christian beliefs.
Kolohe
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amunptah777
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Jcrow,
Yes, but I'll take this moment to remind all concerned that the concept of "sin" is supposed to be taken as a universal...an absolute truth. This is not possible.
Do I wish I were more friendly at moments? sure. Does my unyielding opinions on certain subjects get me into trouble socially? yup.
Does that make these "character flaws" a "sin"....not at all.
I'll mention the Egyptians and then I'll shut up...
To those ancient peoples, the understanding of a universal truth was metaphysical and only minutely understandable from a human point of view. "Sin" was almost entirely a social ethic.
The only crimes were those things which the society deemed harmful to...well...society...and one's personal issues were handled between the individual and the gods...no one elses concern.
This is a serious difference, as I see it, between christianity and paganism. christianity views things in universal absolutes, as if I use strong language or sleep with another womans husband I have committed an offense against the entire order of the universe...by logic, we know this is not so...and the charlatan from nazareth spoke that it is....therefore, that man was a liar.
Kolohe,
Yes, but accidentally breathing in an insect can be harmful, inadvertently. The point is the disillusion of harmful intent . Meditation, prayer AND motion of altruistic intent is not intentionally harmful...these things, in fact make an effort to a "pure" spirit of non-harmful intent.
Example, many saddhus have simply sat down in one place and refused to move on the principle that, if they sit, unmoved, they will cause no harm.
Now me? I'm not so much interested in such things, I view such radicalism , while to be respected, as counter-productive. If one simply sits...and does nothing, then nothing gets accomplished. No animate beings may be harmed, but the culture does not grow, the persons body withers, the mind becomes inflexible and true change ceases.
Thet
Yes, but I'll take this moment to remind all concerned that the concept of "sin" is supposed to be taken as a universal...an absolute truth. This is not possible.
Do I wish I were more friendly at moments? sure. Does my unyielding opinions on certain subjects get me into trouble socially? yup.
Does that make these "character flaws" a "sin"....not at all.
I'll mention the Egyptians and then I'll shut up...
To those ancient peoples, the understanding of a universal truth was metaphysical and only minutely understandable from a human point of view. "Sin" was almost entirely a social ethic.
The only crimes were those things which the society deemed harmful to...well...society...and one's personal issues were handled between the individual and the gods...no one elses concern.
This is a serious difference, as I see it, between christianity and paganism. christianity views things in universal absolutes, as if I use strong language or sleep with another womans husband I have committed an offense against the entire order of the universe...by logic, we know this is not so...and the charlatan from nazareth spoke that it is....therefore, that man was a liar.
Kolohe,
Yes, but accidentally breathing in an insect can be harmful, inadvertently. The point is the disillusion of harmful intent . Meditation, prayer AND motion of altruistic intent is not intentionally harmful...these things, in fact make an effort to a "pure" spirit of non-harmful intent.
Example, many saddhus have simply sat down in one place and refused to move on the principle that, if they sit, unmoved, they will cause no harm.
Now me? I'm not so much interested in such things, I view such radicalism , while to be respected, as counter-productive. If one simply sits...and does nothing, then nothing gets accomplished. No animate beings may be harmed, but the culture does not grow, the persons body withers, the mind becomes inflexible and true change ceases.
Thet