Historical Horned God

[Semjaza]

I seem to ask this on every forum a wander on:

Does anyone have a documented (historical, theological, even folkloric) reference to witches worshipping a Horned deity, besides the witch trial Satan/devil worship hubbub, or a reference that shows if the devil figure is in fact a pagan deity? I've found documentation for witches supposedly worshipping a goddess, but never a horned god (other than the afore mentioned devil).

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

[Baratoz]

I seem to ask this on every forum a wander on:

Does anyone have a documented (historical, theological, even folkloric) reference to witches worshipping a Horned deity, besides the witch trial Satan/devil worship hubbub, or a reference that shows if the devil figure is in fact a pagan deity? I've found documentation for witches supposedly worshipping a goddess, but never a horned god (other than the afore mentioned devil).

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

Well considering the witch trials were the persecution and murdered of innocent people based on no facts at hand, the whole Devil aspect of it is mute. The “evidence” you have I am sure was filtered by Christian dogma. It’s a historical fact that the early Church painted ancient Pagan deities that bore horns as the devil. In fact, they based their image of the Devil on Pagan Horned God images. Just as they now point to the pentagram as the Devils image even though they overlook that at one time the Church used the very same image to represent Jesus. The inverted pentagram used by Devil worshippers has about as much to do with Paganism as the inverted cross they also use has to do with Christianity.

I do believe the Bible never actually gives a description of Satan, other than a dragon or serpent, yet it is weird how the Church depects him in a very similar way to the old Pagan gods.

Now, to answer your question:


The Horned God

The male God of Wicca is known as the Great God, the Great Father or, most commonly, the Horned God. "Horned God" is a modern syncretistic term that combines similar gods from a wide variety of pagan traditions. The archetypal Horned God is based on, among others, the Celtic Cernunnos, the Welsh Caerwiden, the English Herne the Hunter, the Hindu Pashupati, the Greek Pan and the satyrs, and even the Paleolithic cave painting "the Sorcerer" in the Cave of the Three Brothers in France. There are also a number of related British folk figures, such as Puck, Robin Goodfellow, and the Green Man.

In Wicca, the Horned God is associated with hunting, strength, and virility. His imagery is of a man with horns or antlers. He is often portrayed with an erect phallus, a symbol of the power to create life. Another symbol of his sexual prowess and virility is the occasional presence of cloven hoofs or the hindquarters of a goat. With the Great Goddess, the Horned God is part of the duality that makes up all reality.

[Sobek]

where did the bold from above come from?

[Semjaza]

Well considering the witch trials were the persecution and murdered of innocent people based on no facts at hand, the whole Devil aspect of it is mute. The “evidence” you have I am sure was filtered by Christian dogma. It’s a historical fact that the early Church painted ancient Pagan deities that bore horns as the devil. In fact, they based their image of the Devil on Pagan Horned God images. Just as they now point to the pentagram as the Devils image even though they overlook that at one time the Church used the very same image to represent Jesus. The inverted pentagram used by Devil worshippers has about as much to do with Paganism as the inverted cross they also use has to do with Christianity.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Sure, plenty (most) of Christianity springs from Paganism. That wasn't quite what I was asking, maybe I wasn't clear enough (I do tend to ramble).

I was looking for a historical/mythological/folkloric/theological/any reference to tie witches to a horned deity, any horned deity. I've only found references mixed up with a Christian devil figure.

Now, to answer your question:


The Horned God

The male God of Wicca is known as the Great God, the Great Father or, most commonly, the Horned God. "Horned God" is a modern syncretistic term that combines similar gods from a wide variety of pagan traditions. The archetypal Horned God is based on, among others, the Celtic Cernunnos, the Welsh Caerwiden, the English Herne the Hunter, the Hindu Pashupati, the Greek Pan and the satyrs, and even the Paleolithic cave painting "the Sorcerer" in the Cave of the Three Brothers in France. There are also a number of related British folk figures, such as Puck, Robin Goodfellow, and the Green Man.

Is this from Wikipedia? Sorry, but it doesn't really help me. (Thanks, though, I do appreciate the thought). I'm not interested in a 'modern syncretic Wiccan' deity. (We'll leave the Gardnerian horned god out of this, for obvious reasons, though if you know where he comes from, and can say so, it would help).

The article lists: the Celtic Cernunnos, the Welsh Caerwiden (I thought that this was a goddess, but I could have two deities mixed up), the English Herne the Hunter, the Hindu Pashupati, and the Greek Pan. Has anyone found a reference to witches (or sorcerers, or anyone) (before 1900) worshipping one of these gods? I found references to 'witches' worshipping the goddesses Diana, Holda, the Queen of Elphame, and a Madame Oriente figure, and a reference to the Celtic god Lugh commanding 'witches', but nothing involving a horned god other than the devil (and maybe Jaunicot *runs to check*).

This is just personal curiousity, I want to see if there's a name for one that I usually just refer to by title. 'Spose I could just ask him myself...

I think my thought originally was, Why do some witches (or many Wiccans, for that matter) worship a horned god? And evolved into my rambling first question...

I gotta re-phrase this...

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

[Exilus]

The horned god story I know of is the god Lucifer the god of sun and light, I cant remember the name of the people who followed him.

The story as I was taught was how satan inherited the horns and a tale in christianity. This will not be perfect because i can't remember all the details. But i think silver Ravenwolf and Cunningham both had versions of the story in their histories of pagism books.

before the cruisades satan when depicted or named was simply satan, he was depicted as an angel just like any other save that he would be painted black or in black marble to show him as out cast, or different.

During the cruisade thouh he took a drastic change, the cruisaders in their travels to force the will of christ, went northward where they ran into the followers of Lucifer the god of sun, light and nature. He had the horns of a goat to represent his nature face and an arrow for a tale because his statues were used as sun dials, and they got their asses kicked for 10 years.

When they finally conquered that people and returned home, they brought one of the statues with them, and from then on satan was named lucifer, and was depicted with cloven feet and the horns of a goat like a sader, or like the god pan.

He is also depicted with the arrow tipped tail at times, all of these things can only be taken from pagen beleifs or pagen gods because for one our religion is older, two because in the bible its self describes satan as not just another angel but gods most glorius prior to his downfall.

But his name change can be traced directly to this time period with in teh art work that was meant to depict the evil of christians.




As for the horned god title in pagenism, There are many gods who over time have been depicted with having horns. Pan the greek and roman god of flocks and sheep was depicted with horns of a goat and cloven feet. I will not go through a complete list because well i am not sure if one exists, but the list I have right now, most the gods of Flocks and sheep are depicted that way, or if it is a many faced god or goddess such as morgana, or one of the many others they usally took a look of such to syombolize(sp) their connection and oneness with the animals they were goding over.

[LaFiamma]

Does anyone have a documented (historical, theological, even folkloric) reference to witches worshipping a Horned deity, besides the witch trial Satan/devil worship hubbub, or a reference that shows if the devil figure is in fact a pagan deity? I've found documentation for witches supposedly worshipping a goddess, but never a horned god (other than the afore mentioned devil).

there are many historical horned deities, but "The Horned God" is a modern fabrication, syncretization, synthesis, however you chose to think of it. As far as specific worship of these gods by witches? Probably no more or less than anyone else worshipped these gods, same as anyone else might or might not have have worshipped a particular goddess.

[LaFiamma]

The inverted pentagram used by Devil worshippers has about as much to do with Paganism as the inverted cross they also use has to do with Christianity.

...except that some pagans do use the inverted pentagram. Some Wiccan traditions for example use it to represent the second degree.

I think my thought originally was, Why do some witches (or many Wiccans, for that matter) worship a horned god? And evolved into my rambling first question...

I gotta re-phrase this...

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

Why do some witches worship non-horned god, or goddesses, or gods and goddesses, or no deites at all?

[thatguy]

This is just personal curiousity, I want to see if there's a name for one that I usually just refer to by title. 'Spose I could just ask him myself...

That's sounds like it might be a good idea. You must feel happy and honored to have been visited by a god. These must be sacred experiences for you.

I think my thought originally was, Why do some witches (or many Wiccans, for that matter) worship a horned god? And evolved into my rambling first question...

I have to say I really have little idea why or how certain spirits come to be friendly with, present themselves, or visit certain people. However, I've actually never heard anything at all about wise women worshipping a horned god outside of New-age circles. That doesn't mean it isn't so, I'm only stating what I haven't heard.

I wish you the absolute best on your spiritual path.

cheers,

T. Guy.

[Comus]

Witches worshiping a horned god?
Well Strege (Italian witches) worship Actaeon, the horned god of the forest, also known as Cern/Kern. That's my 5c worth.

[Baratoz]

where did the bold from above come from?

http://www.religionfacts.com/wicca/beliefs.htm

[Baratoz]

<<<
Is this from Wikipedia? Sorry, but it doesn't really help me. (Thanks, though, I do appreciate the thought). I'm not interested in a 'modern syncretic Wiccan' deity. (We'll leave the Gardnerian horned god out of this, for obvious reasons, though if you know where he comes from, and can say so, it would help).
>>>

The article I copied specifies the names of the old pagan horned gods. Look up the individual gods listed and see what they say.



<<<
The article lists: the Celtic Cernunnos, the Welsh Caerwiden (I thought that this was a goddess, but I could have two deities mixed up),
>>>

Caeridwen was a horned god. You are thinking of Cerrydwyn.

http://www.answers.com/topic/caerwiden



<<<
the English Herne the Hunter, the Hindu Pashupati, and the Greek Pan. Has anyone found a reference to witches (or sorcerers, or anyone) (before 1900) worshipping one of these gods? I found references to 'witches' worshipping the goddesses Diana, Holda, the Queen of Elphame, and a Madame Oriente figure, and a reference to the Celtic god Lugh commanding 'witches', but nothing involving a horned god other than the devil (and maybe Jaunicot *runs to check*).
>>>

Look them up and you will get your answers. The original horned pagan gods are listed above.

Here is a little on Cernunnos:
http://www.answers.com/topic/cernunnos


Cernunnos
In Celtic religion, a deity worshiped as “lord of wild things.” He wore stag antlers and sometimes carried a torque (sacred neck ornament). He was worshiped primarily in Britain, but there are also traces of his cult in Ireland. He is probably the source for the horned god that appears in Christian medieval manuscripts as a symbol of the Antichrist.



<<<
Why do some witches (or many Wiccans, for that matter) worship a horned god? And evolved into my rambling first question...
>>>

The same reason some worship one that isn’t horned.

[Sobek]

throughout all possible ages and cultures there are too many gods to narrow it down to "the horned god" as baratoz enforced there are alot of them and someone above also said that all the pagan horned god ever was, was a syncretic thingy.

[WolfWitch]

Quite the informative thread. I learned a lot I didn't have a clue about. cool.

Anywho, on to my $.02

I know Pan (my personal Diety.) was worshiped through out the Greek/Roman cultures but mnostly by Shepards and farmers or others who drew their livlyhood from field and forest. I can't say weither or not and "Wise women" or "knowed Men" worshiped him but I am fairly ceartain there was probably a few here and there. (Oh to live back in a more politheistic time.)

BEyond this, I am fairly ignorant.

WW.

[Semjaza]

Wow, thanks for the responses everyone. I think my own personal confusion stems from the fact that I'm the type of polytheist that doesn't believe that "All Gods are One God." I see them more as individuals, so the 'syncretic' thing doesn't really work that well for me. (Although, of course, the many could be few, in some circumstances...)

Although I'm quite comfortable being a pagan witch and worshipping the being referred to most often in folkore as 'the Devil' or 'Old 'un' or 'Master' (I realize most Wiccans/witches/Pagans don't worship this figure), I think I was trying to fit him into a system where he didn't really belong, such as in a particular pantheon or culture, when really he doesn't fall into one that easily. Heh heh yay for the learning process.

Thanks again for all of the responses. I didn't quite find what I was after, but I didn't really expect to, anyway. Interesting reads, though, I love all the different takes on this.

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF[/i]

[Sobek]

" I'm the type of polytheist that doesn't believe that "All Gods are One God." I see them more as individuals, so the 'syncretic' thing doesn't really work that well for me."

i agree there, i dont care hoe divine a being is it'd have to forget some of its names along the way lol.