Can You Change Someone Else Through Magic?

[Phoebe43]

I just did a bunch of spells forgetting the moon was in void today. I used birthday candles. White and a magenta type color to kick it in. I tried to send orbs or energy to the intended people. I was aiming to make them see their wrongs and feel compassion and make amends. If i just visualization will it work? Even in void?

[YanaKhan]

The Moon helps with spells, but i think it's the intention that counts.
However, I don't think a spell to see one's wrongs and make amends will work if the person doesn't want to change. You can't really change people. You could set an example and hope they will see the error of their ways, but a person can only change if they want to. Hopefully your spells will boost any desire they have to change and will make it happen faster, but try not to raise your hopes very much - the spells might not work.

[MsMollimizz]

I just did a bunch of spells forgetting the moon was in void today. I used birthday candles. White and a magenta type color to kick it in. I tried to send orbs or energy to the intended people. I was aiming to make them see theur wrongs and feel compassion and make amends. If i just visualization will it work? Even in void?

Phoebe,
This is falls into the classification of changing someone,
I don't think you'd like for someone to change you...
especially without your permission. Also, what you put
out comes back to you three-fold...so be careful with
what you do !
Gentle Light
MsMollimizz

[Phoebe43]

But cant i do a spell to make or cimpel someine to be kind to me or see the suffering they caused me and make amends...im not sure what magic is for then if i shouldn't...im just saying...whats the alternative

[Xiao Rong]

Because magic does not mean infinite personal power. Trust me, I work with domestic violence survivors and I hear this all the time -- "I just want to make him see how much suffering he's caused. If I could just make him understand, then he'd change." You are basically asking him to grow a sense of empathy that he didn't have before ... you're basically asking for a totally different personality. Magic is great and can help in a lot of things, but some things are just too big to change by magic. It's like trying to use magic to help someone regrow an arm ... for some people, a sense of compassion is about as hard to grow as a missing limb. As many people have already mentioned, people can only change when they want to be changed.

[Phoebe43]

Ok. Point taken. Are there spells that are appropriate when well...im sort of feeling trapped with a person who can be abusuve esp when drinking and not seem to care...a spell for protection? Increased self esteem or courage to move on despite the barriers or me to not take it so bad...im nit being obstinate...needing to know how to use magick in these situations...

[Xiao Rong]

Yes, I believe that magic that you cast on yourself can be very, very effective. Spells for protection, increased self esteem, courage, clarity to see the situation for what it is: these are all much easier to do because rather than trying to change the world around you, you are changing yourself (and you want to change!). And all very appropriate for your situation.

[Phoebe43]

Generally speaking, what are acceptable spells to do on a person? What if our intent is positive and we make statements about not forcing the intent but having the person do it on their own (accept the spell)? A whole lot of spells on here are about making someone love you etc. I understand that is a problem but what about righting wrongs, making a person see something they aren't seeing, being "better". I mean what if we wanted to do a spell for someone to achieve something, etc...I'm not clear on this issue at all...thank you.

[Phoebe43]

I'm sorry to keep going on and on but I mean, in the last post, to add, what if it is to help/save/better someone or a situation with them?

[RosieMoonflower]

Someone more experienced than me may have something different to say, but if they don't WANT to be saved or helped, then I don't think a spell will work.

You cannot force someone to see how much what the do hurts you, even with magic. All you can do is try to be the example you want to see in them and pray that they are shown their ways, but I don't believe you can will this to happen through a spell.

As far as righting wrongs, I think the reason that this wouldn't work is because it really would depend on what side you were standing on to claim who was right and who was wrong. Example: a friend hurts your feelings. You want them to see how harsh they were and how it has affected your friendship so you try a spell to make them see that they were wrong and you were innocent. But, what if it was something that you had done to trigger their rudeness in the first place. Maybe you were inconsiderate of their feelings first and you didn't even know it. Or maybe there is something going on in their lives that doesn't have anything to do with you that is stressing them out to the point where they took it out on you. I know that isn't right, but do you really want a spell to point that out to them and potentially bring their self esteem down or make them feel worse because they realize how "wrong" they were to hurt your feelings..?

Honestly, the best thing you can do here is talk to the person you are wanting to help or with whom a relationship you would like to save or improve. If they won't talk, then they are not interested in change, or even seeing what needed changed. And I don't think you could force that.

If they are though, here are a couple of ways to make the talking easier...

Use "I" statements. This means never start a sentence with the word "you". Example:

1. You always hurt my feelings...

Change to:
My feelings get hurt when...

2. You never listen to me...

Change to:
I feel like I am never heard..

When you change "you" statements to "I" statements you don't come off as accusatory and the other person is less likely to automatically defend themselves. Even if the person is wrong in the first place, it's human nature to defend ourselves when someone else points a finger in our face and says "you!"

Also, tried something called "time talking sticks". A kitchen spoon will do but any stick like item. One person starts with the talking stick and gets 2 minutes to say what they want to say without being interrupted by the other; the one with the stick is the only one who can talk. No matter how bad the other wants to interrupt , they cannot talk until it is their turn. After the first two minutes they give their talking stick to their partner and they get 2 full minutes to talk without being interrupted. Go back and forth like this until everything has been said that you want to say.

Most people feel like if the person they have issues with would just listen to them then they would surely change their thinking. They fact that they won't change is validation to the other that they are simply not listening. If you have said everything you need to say with no interruptions and they still have a different point of view then they HAVE heard you and they don't want to change. They either believe that they are right or they are not ready to change. Hope this helps!

Rosie

[Xiao Rong]

I've split this topic from the original since it is straying from the original topic about working with the moon.

Generally speaking, what are acceptable spells to do on a person? What if our intent is positive and we make statements about not forcing the intent but having the person do it on their own (accept the spell)? A whole lot of spells on here are about making someone love you etc. I understand that is a problem but what about righting wrongs, making a person see something they aren't seeing, being "better". I mean what if we wanted to do a spell for someone to achieve something, etc...I'm not clear on this issue at all...thank you ...

I'm sorry to keep going on and on but I mean, in the last post, to add, what if it is to help/save/better someone or a situation with them?

Spells on other people, in my experience, are most effective when the other person is on board and willing to change. If you wanted to do a spell for someone to achieve something, like get a job, then your spell may be effective for boosting their confidence in interviews, or perhaps a lucky break in getting an interview. But if the subject of your spell isn't interested in getting a job, or perhaps not willing to do the mundane, boring work like filling out applications or sending out their resume, then no amount of magic on your part will compel an employer to get on the phone and offer them a dream job out of thin air.

Magic works best with forces that are already at work, maybe makes things easier. It's kind of like being in a river -- magic is like the current that helps you get downstream faster. But that current won't help you work your way upstream, and it definitely won't help you fly.

All the positive intention in the world cannot really make something happen that wasn't already in the cards. It is really a hard lesson to learn, that some people simply are lacking that capacity to understand or care the suffering they cause others. (my father is one of these people. Trust me, I know how hard it is) Sometimes the only thing you can do is to know when to cut your losses and move on, rather than hoping beyond hope that things will go back to the way they used to be.

[Phoebe43]

I did a candle magick spell and found on the web some verse borrowed from a spell to make someone realize they've done you wrong on a person verbally abusive to me even when i was in the hospital. Anyway he drinks a lot which contributes and i think he kinda feels bad and does want to quit. So maybe im confused here on an appropriate spell ... you are saying i shoyld ask his permission. I could ask his guides/angels/higher self and use a pendulum to ascertain assent. Why do we do magic at all? Im not harming him. Im putting it out there. Im sorry if i seem argumentative. im stubborn yes but this perspective you ate saying would change everything...i hope i make sense.

[AdastraJunction]

I understand your frustration but in the end; spells and rituals aside, maybe this is a person that shouldn't be in your life to begin with if they are causing you to search out magical means to satisfy your want for change. I don't know the situation or who this person is or represents in your life but from personal experience people like that are toxic and you need to be strong enough to say "Thats it, I'm through with them." People like that in my experience almost never change until it's too late and they do you or someone else irreparable harm. Do what you will, but think on this... is it worth the pain? Is this person worthy of YOU and your energy? Are they even deserving of it? I know it's a cruel thing to say (and I speak from personal experience) but a person who is an addict is always an addict (if this person wanted to change they would have already done it or sought help to do so) and you need to be the strong one to say Enough and get on with your life without them in it when all other avenues are exhausted, more often than not those who keep people like that in their lives are the one that suffer the most without needing too. I apologise for being so blunt but as I said before I have been there and I refuse to be that naive again or see others do the same.

[Phoebe43]

Im fine with blunt thank you. if i leave him ill have to do a protection spell yikes but i hear you ty for your reply

[Firebird]

here is blunt, call these people:
http://www.caapincorporated.com/domestic_viol.htm
I think they are relatively close to you
you need to find yourself in this mess, they may be able to help.
BB, FF