Dark vs Light

[-Dark-Moon-]

Dark and light, good vs evil, the god and the devil.... This is the Judeo-Christian mindset.

I try to get away from dualism.

But, if you need someone to tell you how to think, it is useful to have dichotomous terms to lean on.

Blavatsky coined the term LHP and RHP ... And these terms have evolved over time ...

People practicing fluffy, watered down versions of the craft project these qualities onto deities like the Morrigan, Lilith, or Kali... Saying they are wonderful supportive goddesses or some such thing... In their original forms they are destroyers and Are meant to be terrifying. But with destruction comes renewal. The dark has its place in the cosmos whether you like it or not, and whether you choose to use or explore Qlippothic forces or not.

Most newcomers to the craft immediately assume that dark magic is about curses and things... In reality it is about self illumination - lucifer is the light bringer after all - and expansion of will ... Demon comes from 'Daimon' which means nature spirit, chthonic spirit, or guardian spirit.

A strange thing - Sometimes your greatest monster is curled around your greatest treasure.

Do we cast this evil, this darkness out like good Baptists? Does this heal the person, or does the 'evil' just pop up somewhere else ? Is this witchcraft or evangelism/Christianity? Or new age dogma?

As a witch I let it in, find out what it wants, what it needs, where it comes from. I don't need to tell you ladies that spiritual growth can be a messy business. As a witch I believe it is important to be able to recognize and be comfortable working with such forces.

Regardie says that eventually there is no way but the middle way ...

I think that at some point you have to get both of your hands dirty.

[Lillady]

I understand what both of you are saying. Dark is always around us even when we are fully protected against negativity. It is within the life cycle itself. When I think of Dark or Black magick I think of evil spirits, hurt, pain, performing magick that changes one's will. I do not practice that, as I am Wiccan and believe in white/natural magick. However even if we are praciticing divination it opens up that portal and even protected dark things can pass through. There are various ways to be rid of the dark that seeps in though, as many of you know who do study and practice divination and speaking with spirits. So yes either way our hands can get dirty just like you stated -Dark-Moon - It is a chance we take with various practices. I do firmly feel though that with enough practice, education and belief entire protection and banishment of dark can be overcome.

[Xiao Rong]

Dark Moon, I think you've made a really good point about the light/dark dualisms. I think it's important that we separate out "good" and "bad" magic from the concept of "light/dark" or "white/black" (respectively), to know what is the metaphor and what is the meaning. For example, I think darkness and shadow absolutely have importance in our practice - we honor nighttime as a time for rest, repose, and regeneration as vital parts of the cycle of life, and seek understanding of the "shadow" (to use Jungian terms) to help us become better people. But when we start associating night and shadow with bad and evil, then we get muddled when we need them but are afraid to when we think that only the light is good. We start having trouble differentiating the images of "night" and "shadow" and "destruction" (all important aspects of our life) with what's actually bad (e.g. violence, cruelty, and hatred).

So I don't really want to think of witchcraft in terms of light (healing, protection, charms) vs. dark (hexes, curses). There is a place to use curses and hexes, for example, in order to uphold things like kindness, justice, and compassion (for example, if you were to use a hex to keep out an abusive family member, or to connect with your Shadow in order to understand yourself better). It's when we use magic in order to control or hurt people out of cruelty or a need for power that we are in the wrong - but again, this is separate from our language of "light" and "dark".

[-Dark-Moon-]

Some people just use the term 'black magician' for people they don't like, or for magic that they, personally do not agree with.

Some people say that believing in your magic protects you. Others may say that a lack of belief makes you invulnerable.

I think Kassandra made the comment elsewhere in this forum that you can get caught up banishing all the time if you're particularly worried about darker forces and I think that's true. Lets face it, some entities can be hair raising to say the least.... And we are all familiar with the legend of Dr Faustus.

As always, finding balance with whatever you do, and whatever path you choose to walk is probably advisable.

If you follow wicca you might find that many of the 'darker arts' are taboo subjects. I feel there is much to be learned by exploring Goetic forces however this should be approached in a mature fashion with a balanced mindset after a solid grounding has been obtained in protective magic, and you are in touch with your higher self. Serious magicians use connection with Godhead/higher self as protection and the same can be said for priests performing exorcisms.

The old saying, never call up anything you can't put down' is important. Sometimes people do go a bit bonkers exploring darker magical practices but if you look at most magical groups, their MO appears to be an induced spiritual catharsis anyhow. I find it interesting that Koetting has now vowed never to write magical texts again.

[North Star]

I do not use the term black/white, there is simply good intention and bad intention, no black or white about. It is common sense, and there is a thin line that experienced witches are quite aware of. If everyone said 'I only perform white magick' we would all be walking around looking, acting, thinking and living like Glinda the Good Witch (fluffy and watered down, thats where my mind went when I read that lol) and that is simply not the case. A term such as "I only try to work in a positive way" seems more than the cut and dry way to say "black magick is wrong and I do not do it".

Many beginners, the inexperienced, and the 'occasional' witches (claiming to be Wiccan but go through periods of Christianity, which is actually common for some, the back-and-forth Witches I call them...) seem to make the statement "I am Wiccan and only practice white magick" I think it is part of finding yourself and what works for you, and they are taught that there is black and white, but in my oppinion the black/white- be afraid if you do certain things mindset- is a Christian way of thinking.

I agree completely with Dark Moon and Xia Rong. I am not trying to judge others, but I judge the judgement if you get what I am saying. If we were all 'white witches' there would be a lot more restrictions on what we do, and that is simply a phrase I am not fond of. There is no white or black unless you are intentionally harming someone, in my opinion.

Everyone has darkness in them. If our thoughts are magick, to only be a "white witch" means you never have a bad thought ever. You never wished someone to learn their lesson, never done a spell on someone without permission (healing, protection, addiction,love) are those on an intended? Yes, but the intent is not to harm, hurt or cause evil so where does the black/white line get drawn? It is quite complex, and comes with knowledge and understanding of your beliefs and yourself, and what is simply right or wrong. That is why I do not call myself a 'white witch' I don't understand that phrase at all... I am a witch. Not black or white, not good or bad, not right or wrong...

Now I need to get Glinda out of my head, thanks Dark Moon, LOL

[Willow Walker]

I don't see Dark and LIght as good and evil but different types of energy. I believe that one should do whatever is necessary for the best outcome. To me, it's all about balance.... attaining it, restoring or maintaing it. To me, you need to blend the energies like and artist does on a pallet and not just choose black or white. To think in terms of black and white leads to imbalance. To me balance is not equal actions but the knowing when to shift actions.

[-Dark-Moon-]

A guy called Ray Bowers in the 60s began the whole 'grey magic' movement ...

He used techniques like mystifying people as defense, being quoted as saying ...'One basic tenet of witch psychological grey magic is that your opponent should never be allowed to confirm an opinion about you, but should always remain undecided. This gives you a greater power over him, because the undecided is always the weaker. From this attitude much confusion has probably sprung in the long path of history."

I recently read 'The grey witches grimoire' which I thought was a pretty good read, even though it's a short book... It introduces some interesting ideas about Grey magic, and argues that the idea of the white witch is an insult to the ancient wise woman. There are some hefty curses in there.... Which are interesting to read, and some stuff about breaking up other peoples relationships, which I personally don't dabble in even though I can think of extreme situations where some might do this (breaking arranged marriages and the like).

I'm not sure where the whole 'White witch' reference comes from, is it the wizard of Oz, New Age dogma, or Christian Wicca (we won't get into that - You are polytheistic or monotheistic but you can't be both). Hey on a good day I am a bit of Glenda, on a bad day ... Well, sometimes the thunderclouds gather.

'Nocturnal witchcraft' by Konstantinos is worth checking out from a witchy point of view, although Konstantinos has a reputation for 'dark fluff' I still like him and his techniques work. If you want to explore Typhonian magic formally then Hermetic magic by Stephen flowers is a must read, followed by the Seven faces of darkness, and Uncle Seknats essential guide to the LHP. It is recommended not to play with the Qlippoth until you have mastered Kabbalah, otherwise the forces will eat you up, to put it mildly.

[North Star]

The Witches Grimoire sounds familiar for some reason. Thanks for sharing some references on the subject.

I myself, do not do anything I feel is negative or harmful. Spells in general on an intended should not be taboo, because so many do them. Healing, protection, addictions, love... we do them (most anyway, even the ones who say they don't). Its confusing to me... so I don't worry too much and do what I feel is right for me and my situation or any others involved.

I do not agree with break up spells on other people's relationships (except maybe abuse, never done it but I can't see it being black to protect someone from harm), or any spell that is pure low self-confidence and negative, the " come back to me, I cannot live without you, you must feel this pain" kind of crap. Is that black? Maybe to some, to me it is simply a poor choice of negative thought and does not better yourself or the situation. It will make you feel 3 times as bad in the long run... that's just my opinion. The guy will not turn into a lovesick puppy like in the movie The Craft. Simply, negative spells are not positive energy or healthy, IMO. It does not make you a black or 'bad' witch though.

The whole black magick/white magick term is over-used I believe (of course fueled by the media and Christians). To me, in the U.S. especially, seemed to start with the Salem trials (but probably long before). We have always been considered black magicians by many, and I think to try to distance ourselves the term 'white witch' became more and more a definition over the years. Then again, I could be totally wrong lol. It is why so many cannot be open, if we did away with the white/ black mentality there would not be a need to have such fear of the word Witch. The term is not going away anytime soon. If someone asks you if you are a witch, the next question is all too often "are you a good witch or a bad witch?". My response is usually... depends on my mood.

Interesting topic, thanks again for mentioning the books, Dark Moon. I enjoy reading your posts.

[-Dark-Moon-]

Lol North Star no problems... There is so much interesting stuff out there...,

I think your point about making healthy choices is a really good one, and of course intention.

Often these discussions bring me to a philosophical dead end about whether free will is an illusion, whether karmic debts happen and what your ultimate purpose is for life. I am always brought back to basic tenets such as the fact that whether you like it or not, human beings do tend to have a conscience. When you lack this, society labels you antisocial. In the same vein I really believe that the truest hallmark of a black magician is an ego driven lifestyle. What I don't like about the way society is evolving is that these people (without conscience, manipulative, narcissistic) are often very successful in large organisations such as the business sector. Black magicians in similar ways may be consumed by unchecked lust for power and domination. I would argue that to ascend spiritually, evolve, or whatever blanket term you want to use, you have to work through and let to of all attachments (material or otherwise) that are all ultimately temporary or illusory anyhow. In some ways the goal or end result is simply detachment from what is.

Zen Buddhism says it all so much better...

If you want a certain thing, you must first be a certain person. Once you are that certain person, obtaining that certain thing will no longer be a concern of yours.

OR

If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

OR

No snowflake ever fell in the wrong place.

[North Star]

It was great chatting with you today! We seem to have quite a bit in commom, Dark Moon.

I love the snowflake quote, if you don't mind can I add it to my signature? I just love that...

You have a great weekend. It really was a pleasure talking more with you today.

Blessed Be

[-Dark-Moon-]

Go ahead....

[Midnight_Raven_96]

I do quite love this post, Its the first time ive seen someone recognize "Darkness" without calling it "Bad/Evil" as well. Im a very dark person, and for the most part, a very good person. Im living with the bible belt people so nobody cares enough to even think "Hey, maybe hes not a bad guy?" but I digress, Im just glad people realize that dark isnt necessarily evil. I havent looked through this whole post yet cause im sure my dad is about to shut off my internet, but if anyone can send me a link covering Dark magic, id love to see what others have to say.

Thank you. May the Night Mother bless you.

[Khaleesi]

There is no "black" magic; there is no "white" magic. There just is magic itself, and the caster's intention.

[-Dark-Moon-]

Try to reach Tiphareth before you begin to use destructive energies (Geburah).

http://www.corax.com/tarot/index.html?tree-of-life

http://zero-point.tripod.com/holistic/Tiphareth.html

[p3nathan]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but what Ula said early on is pretty much where I stand.
We are basically programmed as humans growing up to believe that dark = bad, light = good. Evil witches where black and leave in spooky dark castles, good witches where bright pink and float around in bubbles etc.
I think to really get the most out of the craft, it's best to let these assumptions go and to embrace all aspects of the world, both the light and the dark, for what they are; equally natural.
Working with darkness can be a powerful thing in many ways. For one, being awake and taking part in a ritual at a time when most are asleep can add to the intensity and energy... it isn't something you've worked into your day schedule, it's something you are up for specially to do.
As for dark colors, well they can be used for all kinds of good. Black can be used for a variety of things, but I tend to use it for banishing negative influences; whether that be an unkind person or a particular illness.