Science and Fate...

[shadowx]

This may be a limited discussion albeit an interesting one, Traumwandlerin posted some links, one "Imagining the tenth dimension" has stuck in my mind for the idea of fate and predetermined actions.

For example, I am unable to decide if what i am typing has already been typed and if it was always going to be typed. I am hovering my mouse over the X to close the window and yet it has already been decided that i will not click it. So what is the purpose of me being able to decide if the decision has already been made?

If you havent watched the video it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q_GQqUg6Ts

Pay special attention from about 1 minute onwards until he talks about you being a long worm rather than a human (in time at least).

Now... As you see in the video we are "longer" and are simply passing through a dimension where this "length" is hidden and one "layer" is revealed at a time. IF you remember in the video back to the balloon passing through the 2d world, the shape of the balloon is already decided and what the flatlander sees is just a "layer" of that balloon at a time. To him that is a shape that appears, then changes, then vanishes completely. Which is what time also does to us. Now if we go back to the image of the long worm with a baby at one end and a coffin at the other, what if, at some point on that worm i raise my hand? If you look at the contour of the worm you would see it rise up where/when i raise my hand. Now back to the balloon remember that the shape of that balloon is already decided. Which means the shape of our "worm" is also already set and decided. So.... if we have this:

Baby ---------- Now ---------- Coffin

as our worm if i raise my hand we get this in the shape of the worm:

Baby ---------- Now ^^(Raised hand) ---------- Coffin

But what if i raise my hand in the future? Then we get this....

Baby ---------- Now ------^^---- Coffin

But i havent got that far yet but the shape of the worm shows that i raise my hand so.... Is that fate? Is it already decided?

Like a dot following a line almost like a 2d rollercoaster if the line goes up and down over a hill then the dot must follow it up and then down. But what direction is this relationship in? For example if the dot decides to jump up does the line follow it up? Or is it that the line already goes up and the dot is tricked into thinking it had a choice?

I was always going to type this post and if you are reading it now then you have no choice in replying. You either will or wont and you dont get that decision. Your actions have already been decided, so why do anything? Why not just sit there and ignore it? Go ahead, but then that too has been decided already.

Unless i have this horribly wrong of course...

Though it would offer a very convenient way to explain divination, fortelling, prediction and even dejavu possibly....


Anyone want to take this up?

[Traumwandlerin]

But you have seen the movie till the end, didn't you? You are not a worm, you are more like a twig. You are both of the options you've wrote. You are not only the one future, you are the other one, too. You have more than 4 dimensions. And they are all part of yourself. Like, when you are traveling through time to save the world and you save the world, the other world will still exists and you just have created a new one, where the world is saved. The same with you, the moment you raise your hand is just one moment after you created another version of yourself where you did not raise your hand and both are you. Like you can't see forward in time, you can't see crosswards to the other self. Like there is not passing time, there is no fate. Since there is no time, everything already lies straight out and porbably can't be changed, but it's not only one possiblitiy where you do one thing or the other, it's every possibility.

Also consider how your mind works, there are probably not much real decision or many versions of yourself. Maybe you are totally lazy and even if you consider to get your hands in the air, you would never do it.

[Seaspirit]

I got to 2 minutes and couldn't handle it anymore

Speaking is way too fast, and it's just too abstract.

[shadowx]

I see your point Traumwandlerin and that does clear it up a lot, i forgot about the split part of the video

But then the question is how often do these splits occur? Is one happening for every key i press? for example i could choose to hit a differe85nt key (see what i did there ) in which case does a split occur for that?

Where is the cut off point? Or isnt there a cut off point?

This is sort of going back to the many worlds hypothesis now whereby each decision creates a new universe in which the decision, or action, was different because presumably the split in my timeline needs a place to exist within hence a parallel universe... I would assume...

The video is really interesting and so long as you understand the basic idea of dimensions then it makes a lot of sense.

[Traumwandlerin]

I don't know about cutting points. And I guess it's also not important for me. What do I get, when i know every second I'm splitted into millions selfs or if this occur only every few years? Or if I could create it with timetravel. Also interesting: Reiki claims to send back energy in time to heal yourself now. So.... does this energy transfer yourself in another path were you were healed? What happens with your original path? You can't destroy a path. Will it just ends there? For everyone? Life would go on for others, wouldn't it?

[Starwitch Stone]

I don't really have a comment but just wanted to let you know I watched the video. I believe in other dimensions and parallel universes. The show "The Universe" has an interesting episode called "Parallel Universes" that you would like.

StarWitch