military don't ask don't tell

Post by **Melindrose** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:29 am

I am a former military member and was wondering what peoples opinion on the don't ask don't tell policy the military has?

As I understood the policy was put in place to keep people who are GLBT from being discriminated against in the military as before then they could ask if you were gay and kick you out where as now so long as you don't get caught then they cant do anything.

Also there is an article of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) that prohibits sodomy do you think that should be changed as well? Sodomy is defined in that article as anything other than vaginal intercourse.

If I have offended any one I apologize. I'm only asking these questions because I heard on the news either last night or this morning that the GLBT community is calling for president Oboma to make good on his promise to get rid of the don't ask don't tell policy.

Post by **NightRose** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:35 am

Quite honestly, the biggest problem the military has is not "don't ask don't tell." The problem is that once you do tell, they can kick you out of the military for it (dishonorable discharge). That's the part that really needs to be changed. Whether you decide to tell or not should be a personal choice. There are openly gay people in the military. Of course, if the wrong person finds out, they can be court martialed for it and discharged. I think that the "don't ask" policy should stay as it is. Everyone should have a choice whether to tell their orientation or not, not be required to show their gay card at the door.

As for the sodomy thing, those laws are old and outdated. Most states still have an old sodomy law tucked away somewhere that they used as an excuse to persecute gay people. Some go as far as to declare sex in any position but missionary to be sodomy. Quite honestly, they're not laws that are really used anymore, and should be gotten rid of, but it's not like they are being actually enforced. Sort of like those odd laws in some states like it being illegal to throw snow balls without a permit, or some such nonsense. They're just there, not actively enforced. I doubt the military goes around and watches every couple have sex to make sure they only use vaginal intercourse. They have better things to do (like watch the terrorists).

Post by **Melindrose** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:49 am

That is true once they find out the do kick you out as for some reason the military in the US is extremely homophobic. I personally am not GLBT but I have known several people that are and had no problem with them personally. You are right NY has or had (not sure any more) a sodomy law on the books but it was not enforced, the military however will enforce their UCMJ article on that and when they boot GLBT out they do use that as one of the article violations. I personally agree that the being kicked out should be gotten rid of but at least it's better than during WWII, Vietnam, and Korea where you couldn't even join if you were GLBT. I only say this because it's a lot of work just to change that little thing (triplicate requiring pain in the but of a fubar system)

Post by **Greymalkin** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:27 pm

Obviously this is an American thing. I don't think I could comment.

BlackTeddyBear · Post by **BlackTeddyBear** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:11 am

I'll start out by saying I'm gay, so you'll know the bias of my arguement right away.
As far as the 'don't ask, don't tell' thing, I'm not against it, because it protects those in the military who are homosexual or bisexual from being ridiculed and discrimated against.
The part I strongly disagree with is the fact that they can kick you out if you're 'outed' to the public. That's ridiculous, and if someone wants to serve for their country (gay or otherwise) they should be able to do so without having to worry about getting beaten up or kicked out.
This is where I'm stuck on the subject, however.
Would it be better to leave the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy in and protect those who are gay or bisexual from being harassed? Or would it be better if they were able to be 'out' about it and risk being harassed anyway?

People have to think of it from both view points: not only of those who are gay/bisexual, but also those who are not. People are narrow-minded, and very ignorant creatures as a whole and no matter what Obama does, he cannot stop people from being homophobic.

Post by **Melindrose** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:49 am

This is true, as I stated when I first made this post I am former military; that being said I personally have no problem with gay persons, even sleeping in the same room. The only problem is if I'm being hit on by some one who is and then all I do is tell them I'm not interested. I also believe the only reason that people should be kicked out for their sexual orientation is if it makes it impossible for them to do their job. Now I also believe that the one who should be kicked out is the one making it hard for the other to do their job so if it's the homosexual then they should go if someone is picking on them then that person should go.

Post by **Greymalkin** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:07 pm

I think being 'hit on' by someone you're not interested in is a problem for everyone, not just straight people.

It always amazes me how straight people (straight men actually) think that all gay men want to have sex with them.

Have you ever really looked at the state of most straight men? I wouldn't touch most of them if you paid me.

Post by **Melindrose** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:38 pm

Greymalkin wrote: Have you ever really looked at the state of most straight men? I wouldn't touch most of them if you paid me.

I take it then you're not straight?

we actually had a couple of guy's in my command get kicked out for being gay I wouldn't have been disturbed to find out that they were if it wasn't for the fact it was during room inspections and they were on the bed of one of their room mates.

Post by **Greymalkin** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:01 pm

Melindrose wrote:I take it then you're not straight?

No I'm not thank goodness.

Melindrose wrote:we actually had a couple of guy's in my command get kicked out for being gay I wouldn't have been disturbed to find out that they were if it wasn't for the fact it was during room inspections and they were on the bed of one of their room mates.

What were they doing on the bed? Having sex?

Post by **Melindrose** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:22 pm

to put it in blunt terms yes.

Post by **Greymalkin** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:13 am

Well, if it was in somebody else's bed and on time when they should have been working then I agree they should have been kicked out.

It's common sense. Whether you're in the miitary or not it's still work and anybody having sex when they are being paid to work deserves to loose thier job whether thay are gay, straight, bisexual or whatever.

It only becomes 'wrong' when there are seperate rules for gay people than there are for straight people.

Post by **Melindrose** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:29 am

they were off shift but still it was on the day that everyone knows they do room inspection.

Post by **Moon_Stone** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:42 pm

This is a great post. I'll tack on my two cents as well. :28:

I'd have to say, given the current state of the world as it is, and homophobia being what it is, in my opinion, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is more a service to the GLBT individual than not. Granted, in a perfect world, there would be no issue with one's sexual preference nor a need to restrict the rights of those who think and feel differently, but a perfect world is not where we all reside. This world is filled with contempt for things not understood and therefore, "telling", while it by all rights should be the option of the individual, may open that person up to isolation when it matters most- in combat. If that military comradery is absent, the potential for soldiers to continue to isolate would carry over onto a battlefield. That is really dangerous.

So- until we are in a perfect world, I think that those who choose to potentially lay down their lives for our freedom need to protect themselves as much as is possible. Especially from eachother.

And Graymalkin:

Graymalkin wrote:It always amazes me how straight people (straight men actually) think that all gay men want to have sex with them.

...Tell me about it!

~BB~
*M

Post by **Melindrose** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:51 pm

I agree.

By the way I'm straight and I don't think that every gay man wants to sleep with me.

Post by **Moon_Stone** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:00 pm

You're not homophobic, as it appears, Melindrose.
In my experience, that is one of the first things a more homophobic straight man thinks of when he encounters a gay man... and even from a female perspective, the phobic ones do tend to immediately jump to that conclusion. "Ugh, he's gay so he wants to grab at my butt."
It's kind of funny, really.

If every woman who saw a man and vice versa thought "ooh, he/she wants me", it'd be a very strangely different world. :28:

~M