How can someone be a Christian Witch?

[One Witchy Mom]

The Craft is an art form. One can practice The Craft and what ever religion they like, or none at all. The Craft is a science and art, a craft. It can be applied to any religion, as a way to connect with nature and Divine. On the other hand Wicca is a religion that is opposition to Christianity. So , as one who be Christian and Craft acknowledging their own God and body of Saints, Angels, and Spirit forms, a Christian really ought not to be a Wicca with polytheistic.

So, yes one can be, and people have been Magical Christian since Christianity. Look at Vodou, Hoodoo, Santeria, and most forms of Folk Magic. Look at Gnostic and Esoteric systems. Magical Christians, is nothing new regardless of what uneducated people want to say or believe. After all, Jesus cursed and Blessed , and drove out demons ; while he instructed his disciples to do that same under the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[MOTHERofDRAGONS]

If anyone out there is a practicing Christian Witch, how do you do it?

From what I understand, the Bible teaches "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" (meaning all witches and practitioners of the Old Religion should be put to death)...and also I believe a great deal of the manner in which the Bible became the preferred religion of the time, replacing witchcraft, aka "The Old Religion", was to make certain that witchcraft and witches were completely shunned therein... Given all this, following one path tells you to, in fact, despise and totally disapprove of the other... which makes this is a very contradictory belief system! Please share how you, as a Christian Witch or just someone who knows, deal with this internal controversy and contradiction.

...Anything I don't know is something I want to know.
Thank you for your candor- I promise not to judge.

~Blessed Be~

When I read the first post, ..I stopped, because I have done research on this.. Please if, you time, open the links and read.
Remember time and memory can sometimes be mis interpreted




http://ladymorgana.com/cauldronclassroo ... suffer.htm

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!top ... XDau87-bUg

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!top ... XDau87-bUg

http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/2009/02 ... t-iii.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=what+bib ... .&start=10

http://lparchive.org/Eternal-Poison/Update%2058/

http://jamieholbrook.weebly.com/1/post/ ... -true.html




)0(
MOTHER OF DRAGON

[MOTHERofDRAGONS]

So.. I hope my post brought on a sense of.. I don't agree with it, but to each there own.
Some people view the Abrahamic God as the only God.. But what about Muslims. .. They don't. But their view is (and this is my complete opinion, however I think a general consensus is the same) that women aren't allowed very many rights. And being a witch gives you great power. So they don't "allow" witches(male or female, I believe) ..
As a Pagan, who are we to judge what other paths are right are wrong?

Live and let live, unless your life (or loved ones) is in danger by another. ( then, IMHO) blast their ass full throttle. That will be THEIR KARMA.
So..
Let me also state, that I change my mind sometimes if I'm shown a better way.
So..
And let's all remember, never judge a book by its cover, my children are xtains, and my son asks me to cast spells for him. What a beautiful boy, er, man he's becoming. (17, now) but my daughter thinks I'm going straight to hell, and cries for me. (she's also mad at me too.. 18, teenagers, huh!)

Damn I love them both so much. .. Ok, off topic.

Dark Blessings, and good WILL,
)0(
MOTHERofDRAGONS

[seidkonacat]

The original Old Testament was written in Aramaic, an ancient dialect of Hebrew. The word that is often translated as "witch" or "sorcerer" is chasapah which literally means "one who poisons wells." In a society living in an arid landscape where water was scarce, that would indeed be a heinous crime.

It was for Church-related political reasons that the was changed to both "sorcerer" and later "witch." It had a lot to do with the King James version of the bible which was translated in the 1500s. The infamous tome "Malleus Malificarum" (The Hammer of Witches) quoted it and....well the rest is the witch trials. The motivations behind it, however, were chauvinism and politics, not necessarily religion.

As to the idea of Christian Witchcraft itself, there are a huge number of Christian traditions of using magic. y grandmother was a Strega, and also a devout Catholic, as are any practitioners of Santeria. I think the idea of doing what one might describe "witchcraft" while remaining part of the Christian faith is at all out-of-the ordinary.

[loona wynd]

As to the idea of Christian Witchcraft itself, there are a huge number of Christian traditions of using magic. y grandmother was a Strega, and also a devout Catholic, as are any practitioners of Santeria. I*don't* think the idea of doing what one might describe "witchcraft" while remaining part of the Christian faith is at all out-of-the ordinary.

I think you meant don't think the idea of witchcraft and Christianity is out of the ordinary. Its actually something I have found to be more and more common. Especially when you look into folk magic practices in the middle ages and Renaissance in Europe. During those times there were forms of Christian magic and witchcraft everywhere.

In the US forms of Hoodoo involve a lot of Christian elements. Most Hoodoos and Rootworkers are Christian. So the way they do their magical work is based in that paradigm. Some traditions are heavily based in Catholicism which includes prayers to Saints and Mary in its practice. So with Hoodoo they added those influences to the practice and a new magical tradition was born.

You also have Enochian magic which is a form of angelic magic. This is a practice which many Christians would like as many Christians believe in angels. Many even pray to angels for help in many things not wanting to bug God. I don't know a whole lot about this form of magic other than it was channeled and founded by Johnathan Dee and Edward Kelly.

There are also forms and styles of Ceremonial magic like the Golden Dawn which can be traced to forms of Christianity or has very Christian elements in them. Ceremonial magic while it can be worked and practiced in pagan paradigms is better suited for the Abrahamic traditions of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as that was where they originated.

[seidkonacat]

[

In the US forms of Hoodoo involve a lot of Christian elements. Most Hoodoos and Rootworkers are Christian. So the way they do their magical work is based in that paradigm. Some traditions are heavily based in Catholicism which includes prayers to Saints and Mary in its practice. So with Hoodoo they added those influences to the practice and a new magical tradition was born.

Oh absolutely. I have been to Haiti a few times and find that Haitian Vodou (or Hoodoo, what-have-you, that's just the spelling I always see in Haiti) have roots in both Christian and pagan traditions. The practitioners I spoke to (in my stilted French-English pidgin) seemed to see no contradiction in this. No feelings that the two traditions and practices could not be merged successfully. The only anti-Vodou rhetoric I have ever heard in Haiti was from a Catholic priest, and I think his biases have to be taken into account. The general populace seemed remarkably chill about it.

There are also forms and styles of Ceremonial magic like the Golden Dawn which can be traced to forms of Christianity or has very Christian elements in them. Ceremonial magic while it can be worked and practiced in pagan paradigms is better suited for the Abrahamic traditions of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as that was where they originated.[/quote]

Agreed. The Abrahamaic religions have a lot of magical traditions. Christian witchcraft isn't a contradiction at all.

[loona wynd]

In the US forms of Hoodoo involve a lot of Christian elements. Most Hoodoos and Rootworkers are Christian. So the way they do their magical work is based in that paradigm. Some traditions are heavily based in Catholicism which includes prayers to Saints and Mary in its practice. So with Hoodoo they added those influences to the practice and a new magical tradition was born.

Oh absolutely. I have been to Haiti a few times and find that Haitian Vodou (or Hoodoo, what-have-you, that's just the spelling I always see in Haiti) have roots in both Christian and pagan traditions. The practitioners I spoke to (in my stilted French-English pidgin) seemed to see no contradiction in this. No feelings that the two traditions and practices could not be merged successfully. The only anti-Vodou rhetoric I have ever heard in Haiti was from a Catholic priest, and I think his biases have to be taken into account. The general populace seemed remarkably chill about it.

Thats actually different. Voodoo is a religion that uses Hoodoo in the practices. Its different than the Hoodoo traditions you will find here in the US. There are several related traditions some are religions and others are magical paths. Hoodoo is the American magical tradition. New Orleans Voodoo is a religion that developed out of it unique to that area.

There are also forms and styles of Ceremonial magic like the Golden Dawn which can be traced to forms of Christianity or has very Christian elements in them. Ceremonial magic while it can be worked and practiced in pagan paradigms is better suited for the Abrahamic traditions of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as that was where they originated.

Agreed. The Abrahamaic religions have a lot of magical traditions. Christian witchcraft isn't a contradiction at all.[/quote]It only seems to be a contradiction because of the mistranslation of witch in the passage thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. The book of the psalms is a really good book for biblical magic.

[seidkonacat]

Thats actually different. Voodoo is a religion that uses Hoodoo in the practices. Its different than the Hoodoo traditions you will find here in the US. There are several related traditions some are religions and others are magical paths. Hoodoo is the American magical tradition. New Orleans Voodoo is a religion that developed out of it unique to that area.

I' well aware of the different Voodoo/Vodou traditions. It's just that the one I'm most familiar with is Haitan Voudou. I live for part of the year in Memphis--that isn't too far from New Orleans. I should visit more time and record the comparisons of the two separate but related traditions.

But it's hard for e to be in New Orleans. It presses on y ind, it won't stay quiet, it worms its way into y consciousness. And it's a frightening presence.

New Orleans has always been such a sorrowful city, it's hard for me to stay there. Murder, slavery, clashing cultures, clashing colors, deadly games of politics, I'm extremely empathetic, it's my one gift, and all the tragedies that occurred in that city still linger in its air. In the river, maybe, always rising up to wash the city away. New Orleans is full of ghosts and shadows, ghostly lights. The city itself is a sprawled mass of gorgeous Gothic architecture, churches and gargoyles, grotesques and graveyards, all surrounding the frailer, poorer houses and buildings. Those are the ones that get beaten down, worn away, swept up in each new hurricane. But the city will endure. She always endures. I know New Orleans, but I don't know its' voodoo.

[loona wynd]

I' well aware of the different Voodoo/Vodou traditions. It's just that the one I'm most familiar with is Haitan Voudou. I live for part of the year in Memphis--that isn't too far from New Orleans. I should visit more time and record the comparisons of the two separate but related traditions.

I wonder if Voodoo like its cousin tradition of Santeria is one where the people who practice it might practice both that and Christianity. It may depend on the Voodoo tradition. I know some areas where Voodoo as a religion is practices there are still heavy Christian pockets so it would make sense that they would practice both.

But it's hard for e to be in New Orleans. It presses on y ind, it won't stay quiet, it worms its way into y consciousness. And it's a frightening presence.

Do you have any shields that you could use?

New Orleans has always been such a sorrowful city, it's hard for me to stay there.

I think that also might be why I have heard of so many haunted houses and haunted tours. A place like New Orleans would be like that.

Murder, slavery, clashing cultures, clashing colors, deadly games of politics, I'm extremely empathetic, it's my one gift, and all the tragedies that occurred in that city still linger in its air. In the river, maybe, always rising up to wash the city away.

Well you know there is a reason why we don't have any records of Native American tribes living in that area year round. For a part of the year Mother Nature batters that area with rain and floods. Its not really a safe place to be. So the tribes new this and if they lived there at all it was not during hurricane season. The same can be said for most of that area of the south.

New Orleans is full of ghosts and shadows, ghostly lights. The city itself is a sprawled mass of gorgeous Gothic architecture, churches and gargoyles, grotesques and graveyards, all surrounding the frailer, poorer houses and buildings. Those are the ones that get beaten down, worn away, swept up in each new hurricane. But the city will endure. She always endures. I know New Orleans, but I don't know its' voodoo.

I often wonder if that may be one of the reasons why that city endures. That one location out of all the other areas in the south where forms of Hoodoo and Voodoo are practiced has more associations with Hoodoo and Voodoo than any one else. The feel of the city may be one of the reasons why its so popular there.

New Oreleans to me is a witchy city, just a witchy city of the south. The North has Salem MA.

[SpiritDragon]

probably posted already but its suffer not a( pharmakos )to live not a witch. Its King James who had it interpreted as a witch however the witches were the ones who knew herbs of healing and death and not everyone practicing magick is always nice about it. they were like pharmacist of today people who knew the herbs or plants to heal and yes to kill with. so hired assassins who had rings with poison in them thats what it was talking about not the witch who was midwife, healer,, herbalist. ect

[ravensilverbear]

please do not get me wrong being druid witch wiccan Christian or what ever you choose to believe does it not bring us all to a enlightenment you can not have good with out the bad just as you can not have faith with out hope if you look at some of the symbols they are used by both the medusa used to heal twin snakes upon a staff found also in the story of moses the Hebrew star if broken down represents fire ,water air earth do we not create evil by giving it a name there for giving it power how can we judge what is right or wrong if in the universe we are all connected to each other by spiritual energy this debate will go on forever even after I go to summerland in the Christian faith paradise we need to remember that we are all one no one better or stronger and that we both if by one simple act do a kindness in this world it will be repeated three times over is not this goal what we strive for to change ourself to change the world I think that you can be a Christian witch but you have to accept the feminine side you cannot just be one sided here

[loona wynd]

I think that you can be a Christian witch but you have to accept the feminine side you cannot just be one sided here

What about witches who just work with a Goddess and not a God? This statement here makes it seem like you feel that there has to be a Goddess and a God or Masculine and Feminine in order for witchcraft to work and be practical. Is that accurate or did I misread you?

Also: Why would a Christian witch need to have a Goddess if they don't believe in a Goddess? Is acceptance of the divine through Mary enough as Mary did give birth to Jesus and is often prayed to in many different Christian Witch traditions, if not as a Goddess, as at least a venue for feminine energy.

[Seraphin]

It's no secret that Catholics believe Virgin Mary to be a Goddess and an intercessor. Although many Catholics will fight you tooth and nail that they don't worship or venerate Mary as their Deity and they just honor her holiness, they have statues and images of her, shrines to her, and they pray to her asking for healing, wealth, fertility and so and so forth.



Actually the dying Pope John Paul II wrote a note saying, "I am totally in your hands" -- a note directed to MARY not JESUS.

Queen of Heaven

Also, Virgin Mary has a title, "Queen of heaven" as the Catholics assert, which also refers to many mystery religious authority and ideals.

That Christmas was originally a pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year, the ceremonies with which it is celebrated, prove its origin. In Egypt, the son of Isis, the Egyptian title for the queen of heaven, was born at this very time, about the time of the winter solstice.

Source: The Two Babylons by Alexander Hyssop

Jeremiah 44:17 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

Jeremiah 44:25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

Source: Complete Jewish Bible

According to some researches Ishtar of the Akkadians and the Astarte of the Phoenicians are the Deities referred to as Queens of Heaven.

Queen assumed into Heaven,
pray for us.
Queen of all the earth,
pray for us.
Queen of Heaven,
pray for us.
Queen of the universe,
pray for us.

Source: Catholic Litany

Need I say more...

[loona wynd]

See I've never heard of Catholics thinking of Mary as a Goddess. They are very much a monotheistic christian faith. That being said they do pray to her and honor her like any of the other Saints. I believe that she is actually considered a saint in many of their views. It still counts as working with her as a divine mother and being though.

[dolphinpatronus]

First allow me to say that I have not read all 7 page of this thread tho I have skimmed it. Next if I say something that offends anyone that is in NO way my intent & I apologize in advance I am simply stating my thoughts & experiences. That said I will offer a bit of personal background to help people understand where I'm coming from. I was baptized Lutheran & taken to Lutheran church most of my youth. I also attended Catholic school from kindergarten thru 4th grade which meant going to mass at least once a week as well as regular religion classes. My father's family was Baptist so I also on occasion attended services at his family's church. My babysitter growing up was a Jehovah's Witness & since they often met while she was babysitting me I also attended those meetings. Once I was a teenager I had friends that were Catholic, Mormon & Non Denominational Christians so out of curiosity I sometimes went to some of their church services & functions. So my knowledge of Christianity is pretty broad (& in a few Denominations slightly specific) tho I will never claim to know the Bible front to back or even be able to sight specific scripture I will say that I have noticed over the years that it contradicts itself very often. I also find most Christian faiths do the same. The prime example of this being that the second of The 10 Commandments states "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them" I would think that would included Jesus & ALL of the other Saints & if you have ever been in a church (especially a Catholic one) you will know this is not the case. Also the first commandment say not to worship any other God & while Jesus & the Saints are not called gods they are regularly prayed to/worshiped.

So all of that said I can see A) how Christianity can be a very confusing religion to follow & B) how someone could follow the Wiccan path & still incorporate some Christian aspects. The patron saints could easily be used as a pantheon.