Witchy Asceticism

[Victoria Mnemosyne]

Twine, I definitely agree with your section on the darker side of witchraft. I wish there was a good source for learning about it, as opposed to "BLACK MAGICK SPELLS R US: CURSE YOUR EX BOYFRIEND!" -___-
I understand some people are apprehensible about allowing newbies and youngins access to that stuff, but I believe it is very important for educational purposes. I wish there was a way on this forum we could discuss darker magic- I agree with you as well that I am not sure if I will practice it as well, but I don't strictly limit myself to "white magic". As a concept I don't believe magic is black and white, and I don't believe one is bad and one is good. Magic is like human actions- there are consequences for everything so you should think everything through. Sorry for my little rant there... *composes self*

Methinks we should set up a topic about it... or at least some pms

[Twine]

Twine, I definitely agree with your section on the darker side of witchraft. I wish there was a good source for learning about it, as opposed to "BLACK MAGICK SPELLS R US: CURSE YOUR EX BOYFRIEND!" -___-
I understand some people are apprehensible about allowing newbies and youngins access to that stuff, but I believe it is very important for educational purposes. I wish there was a way on this forum we could discuss darker magic- I agree with you as well that I am not sure if I will practice it as well, but I don't strictly limit myself to "white magic". As a concept I don't believe magic is black and white, and I don't believe one is bad and one is good. Magic is like human actions- there are consequences for everything so you should think everything through. Sorry for my little rant there... *composes self*

Methinks we should set up a topic about it... or at least some pms

I'll PM you, shortly. I would very much like to speak with you about it, and maybe even do some joint research.

[Victoria Mnemosyne]

Excellent! At the very least we can pm.
But i posted in the moderator's forum a quetion about it. I'd just like to run it by Starwitch first before I post a topic she might not want on her site. If she's ok with it we can move on to creating a topic for it

[Moon Stone]

Also, just thinking here.... I believe to become well-rounded, I will have to study the darker side of witchcraft. Which I think is good. Whether I practice it or not, time will decide, but I feel that it is best to bring in as much information as possible. Agreed?

I totally agree with that. I do think that there are quite a few concerns of immature/inexperienced people trying to access such things, but maybe if the administration on the board were to make it a private section it may curtail that?

[Twine]

Also, just thinking here.... I believe to become well-rounded, I will have to study the darker side of witchcraft. Which I think is good. Whether I practice it or not, time will decide, but I feel that it is best to bring in as much information as possible. Agreed?

I totally agree with that. I do think that there are quite a few concerns of immature/inexperienced people trying to access such things, but maybe if the administration on the board were to make it a private section it may curtail that?

That's what Victoria and I were discussing. She's sent word to the Head Honcho (aka The Big Cheese aka Starwitch), so we'll see how things turn out. I really hope to have a forum where we can discuss such things, as I think they are equally important to finding truth. The problems we've come upon though, is defining where the line is. There is a lot of gray area and it's hard to specify exactly where the dark begins.

[black dove]

I know that abstinence has become the highlight of the discussion and you're probably tired of it, but here is a piece of information I haven't seen on here yet. I have come across various books (though I've read none, do to lack of finances and room) that mention the magickal powers of sex, in the druidic belief system. Maybe you should check them out... they're VERY easy to come by.

[)O( Krystal Raven )O(]

Also, in regards to the way you TOOK such Vows. I am planning a blood ritual to the Moon. How did you go about taking the Vow, Krystal? Was it just adopted, or did you have a ceremony? (You don't seem like someone who would skimp on a ceremony)

Feel absolutely free to adopt these yourself, and the same goes for anyone else reading this at any point in the future.

I actually took my Vows to the Goddess Isis and Her Sister Nephthys at The Goddess Temple of Orange County on Sunday November 2, 2008. It was a public ritual, with many attending Priestesses and a lot of fanfare. The night before (The Day of the Dead) I led a Dumb Supper, which is a way to invite dearly departed ones to join us in communion and fellowship. My Vows ceremony, according to the Director of the temple herself, was one of the most intricate and complex she'd ever done (and probably will ever do). If you'd like, I'll archive it's outline and send you a copy.

[Twine]

Also, in regards to the way you TOOK such Vows. I am planning a blood ritual to the Moon. How did you go about taking the Vow, Krystal? Was it just adopted, or did you have a ceremony? (You don't seem like someone who would skimp on a ceremony)

Feel absolutely free to adopt these yourself, and the same goes for anyone else reading this at any point in the future.

I actually took my Vows to the Goddess Isis and Her Sister Nephthys at The Goddess Temple of Orange County on Sunday November 2, 2008. It was a public ritual, with many attending Priestesses and a lot of fanfare. The night before (The Day of the Dead) I led a Dumb Supper, which is a way to invite dearly departed ones to join us in communion and fellowship. My Vows ceremony, according to the Director of the temple herself, was one of the most intricate and complex she'd ever done (and probably will ever do). If you'd like, I'll archive it's outline and send you a copy.

If you could, that would be (dare i say it) divine. Also, Victoria and I were tossing around the idea of creating a forum for the darker parts of witchcraft and your name came up (not because you are a darker witch, but because you're a wealth of knowledge on such subjects) and we were wondering your thoughts on the matter...

[)O( Krystal Raven )O(]

I know that abstinence has become the highlight of the discussion and you're probably tired of it, but here is a piece of information I haven't seen on here yet. I have come across various books (though I've read none, do to lack of finances and room) that mention the magickal powers of sex, in the druidic belief system. Maybe you should check them out... they're VERY easy to come by.

I know of the 'magical powers of sex.' I'll have none of that rubbish. It's distinctly animalistic, just like eating and breathing. neither of which I'm fond of, but as all other humans do... find necessary. Higher beings have no need for 'sex.' I will stand by this.

**Interesting... we are the opposite. I adore eating.. I eat live oysters and fish... I eat rare steaks that were happy cows mere hours before the first taste.... I adore breathing... I use Tantric breath play to elevate my consciousness when communicating with a Lover... it makes the heart race and the head light. Many higher vibrations do not need or even tolerate the rich vibrant tones of sexuality and its form of enlightenment. However, many lower vibrations are also Divinely connected to the Pinnacle of Existence.....

[)O( Krystal Raven )O(]

I think a forum dedicated to the darker aspects of the Craft and Spirituality would be my home instead of the Q & A. Cheers, Ta!!

[Moon Stone]

That's what Victoria and I were discussing. She's sent word to the Head Honcho (aka The Big Cheese, aka Starwitch ), so we'll see how things turn out. I really hope to have a forum where we can discuss such things, as I think they are equally important to finding truth. The problems we've come upon though, is defining where the line is. There is a lot of gray area and it's hard to specify exactly where the dark begins.

Precisely! Not sure how Starwitch will feel about it, I had read a post of hers some where here where she had removed black arts stuff because she wanted something more positive and spiritually enlightening. However, I think if the discussion were to be kept in a positive, in the spirit of learning, and was not going to turn disastrous for some kid that never did magick before trying things out, it could be a good thing.

[Tasariel]

I think for educational purposes, learning about the "black magic" side of things could definitely be helpful.
I'm only against a lot of them because of some basic moral issues, setting aside my Wiccan "harm none" thing.
But I definitely don't see any harm in learning about them in order to be fully educated and aware. I'll be very interested to see what this might result in!

I think part of what makes a good person is the ability to choose what is good and what is not. Those things are different for everyone, but I don't think that hiding darkness from people will ever lead to them being fully aware of the right decisions. Sheltering someone from something just takes their free will away, and leaves them with the INABILITY to choose when they finally have to, in my opinion. Much in the same way that I think sheltering children makes it harder for them to operate in society when they finally have to make tough decisions for themselves.
Sorry this was probably really rambling and boring, I'll quit now. XD

[Sage50]

I must warn you man and woman are sexual being and no matter the light you shine on it it will always be so.

[Twine]

I think for educational purposes, learning about the "black magic" side of things could definitely be helpful.
I'm only against a lot of them because of some basic moral issues, setting aside my Wiccan "harm none" thing.
But I definitely don't see any harm in learning about them in order to be fully educated and aware. I'll be very interested to see what this might result in!

I think part of what makes a good person is the ability to choose what is good and what is not. Those things are different for everyone, but I don't think that hiding darkness from people will ever lead to them being fully aware of the right decisions. Sheltering someone from something just takes their free will away, and leaves them with the INABILITY to choose when they finally have to, in my opinion. Much in the same way that I think sheltering children makes it harder for them to operate in society when they finally have to make tough decisions for themselves.
Sorry this was probably really rambling and boring, I'll quit now. XD

Wonderfully put. That's all I have to say to that.

[Adder]

In regards to vow's, removing distraction and desire is meant to allow a greater capacity for a closer connection with the deity, at least according to the Vatican. Like a 24/7 ritual. I don't think its meant to be about experiencing the lack of those things, but rather removing them to allow a higher spiritual practise - so I guess if your craving things you vowed against then perhaps you've gone too long or shouldn't have vowed them in the first place yet. Otherwise a vow could be used as a tool in creating specific types of desire, to subdue or to fuel it.