Being Cursed vs. Karma?

[[HangedMan]]

How do you know the difference if someone put a spell on you and cursed you, or if it's just karma coming back your way? I ask because I find this topic interesting since I know nothing about witchcraft really. Also, isn't there some 3-fold rule that if you curse someone you get it back 3x as bad anyway? So isn't that just karma? I'm confused.

[watershield]

First, The three fold law is a wiccian concept. Not everyone believes in it or worries about it.

Curses do exist but the ones that work are fairly short lived. It just takes to much energy and focus from the caster to maintain it.

Karma is an aspect of Eastern religion, pick up on by the west back in the 60 / 70's and interprited in far too many ways to really have meaning.
All it really says is that for every deed you do in this life, there is a consiquence. Some faiths that believe in reincarnation also believe that your Karma determines what sort of person or life you will attain in the future. I guess when it comes to Karma, you can believe what you want as it's all therory anyhow. There is no imperical evidence to even suggest any form of fact.

[mysticfyrefly]

I definitely believe in Karma simply being you do something wrong with bad intent it comes back in some way or another the same as with good. I've seen it happen in a big way and very dramatically in fact all happening in 3's too. As far as curses go I think others can send negative energy your way if they really think they hate you and they put out energy from that emotion .I know you can feel it and sometimes in the form of a curse I wonder myself sometimes if someone hadn't done that to me i've had quite a round of bad luck and it seems when i was around one particular person too..never hurts to do a little protection casting for yourself...

[hedge*]

I definitely believe in Karma simply being you do something wrong with bad intent it comes back in some way or another the same as with good.

But that's not karma - that's cause and effect.
I do get REALLY fed up with people who misuse terminology (some would say I'm quite anal about it - but hey ho) ESPECIALLY the terms karma and deja vu - but that's another post.

The word Karma is thrown about so willy nilly these days that it has totally lost it's true meaning.
Karma is Sanskrit meaning 'action, effect, destiny.'
It is the concept of many religions including Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism and is basically the sum of a person's actions determining their future states of existence. The effects of those deeds actively create all that is to happen and determine every present and future experience, thus completely excluding random chance.

Most people here know my thoughts on karma as it's discussed many many times - for those of you who don't I think it's a load of old piffle.

Cause and effect is a different thing entirely but it gets called karma WHICH IT ISN'T.

Someone explained it really well to me once (might have even been you WS - or Warrior Witch come to think of it) that the three fold rule works on three levels.
Whatever you give out will come back to you - physically, spiritually and emotionally - hence threefold.
I like this theory more.

As for curses - curses schmurses.

The thing about "cursing" is that the "cursed" feed the energy that is doing the "cursing"

If you just shrug your shoulders and accept that shitty things happen all the time you're gonna starve that "curse" and it will soon bugger off.

It's like signs at the zoo- don't feed the monkeys.

DON'T FEED THE CURSES!

[oracle's child]

alright i'm a simpleton, i admit it. now that that's out of the way please draw me a picture of what is the difference again? in your definition (hedge) you say that karma is action, EFFECT, destiny. and the sum of a person's actions determine the future states of existance. um, isn't that cause and effect? i'm not understanding something. as far as curses, i'm not so sure if i agree with the cursed feeding the curse. i'm sure that each of us can only go by personal experience but i have to say that i have felt at times negative energy from certain people like a bolt out of the blue and thought, aha! so that's why............then i take steps to actively fight it off(prayers, visualization and talismans) sending that crap back to it's originator. that's just me though. again if you could please explain about the karma/cause and effect thing i'd appreciate it.

[mysticfyrefly]

i've had this in a folder for some time now so i'll share this I found this somewheres on the web a long time ago...

The Law of Karma In Buddhist teaching, the law of karma, says only this: `for every event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was caused by the first, and this second event will be pleasant or unpleasant according as its cause was skillful or unskillful.' A skillful event is one that is not accompanied by craving, resistance or delusions; an unskillful event is one that is accompanied by any one of those things. (Events are not skillful in themselves, but are so called only in virtue of the mental events that occur with them.) Therefore, the law of Karma teaches that responsibility for unskillful actions is born by the person who commits them. Let's take an example of a sequence of events. An unpleasant sensation occurs. A thought arises that the source of the unpleasantness was a person. (This thought is a delusion; any decisions based upon it will therefore be unskillful.) A thought arises that some past sensations of unpleasantness issued from this same person. (This thought is a further delusion.) This is followed by a willful decision to speak words that will produce an unpleasant sensation in that which is perceived as a person. (This decision is an act of hostility. Of all the events described so far, only this is called a karma.) Words are carefully chosen in the hopes that when heard they will cause pain. The words are pronounced aloud. (This is the execution of the decision to be hostile. It may also be classed as a kind of karma, although technically it is an after-karma.) There is a visual sensation of a furrowed brow and downturned mouth. The thought arises that the other person's face is frowning. The thought arises that the other person's feelings were hurt. There is a fleeting joyful feeling of success in knowing that one has scored a damaging verbal blow. Eventually (perhaps much later) there is an unpleasant sensation of regret, perhaps taking the form of a sensation of fear that the perceived enemy may retaliate, or perhaps taking the form of remorse on having acted impetuously, like an immature child, and hping that no one will remember this childish action. (This regret or fear is the unpleasant ripening of the karma, the unskillful decision to inflict pain through words.) If there are no persons at all, then there is no self and no other. There is no distinction between pain of which there is direct sensual awareness (which is conventionally called one's own pain) and pain that is known through inference (conventionally called another person's pain). Whether pain is known directly or indirectly, there is either an urge to quell it or an urge to cultivate it. Whether joy is known directly or indirectly, there is either an urge to nourish it or to quell it. In the conventional language of speaking of events personally, the urge to quell all pain and to nourish all joy is known as being ethical or skillful or (if you like) good. The urge to nourish pain and quell joy is known as being unskillful, unethical or bad. Being fully ethical is said to be impossible for those who make a distinction between self and other and show preference for the perceived self over the perceived other, for such perceptions inhibit being fully responsive. Being fully ethical is possible only for those who realize that all persons are empty, that is, devoid of personhood.

[oracle's child]

thank you. i.....think......i understand now.

[hedge*]

alright i'm a simpleton, i admit it. now that that's out of the way please draw me a picture of what is the difference again?

Not a simpleton - it's a classic case of why westerners shouldn't try to introduce ancient language into our own.

Karma denotes spiritual baggage - everything that is happening to us right now is because of actions and deeds we did in a past life. Basically all our actions ever committed stay with our souls and carry on through all our incarnations.

The reason for the mix up in understanding karma is probably because of the Buddhist view, which is most closely related to our western translation. But even in Buddhism it's more complicated than that, as you'd expect.

as far as curses, i'm not so sure if i agree with the cursed feeding the curse. i'm sure that each of us can only go by personal experience but i have to say that i have felt at times negative energy from certain people like a bolt out of the blue and thought, aha! so that's why............then i take steps to actively fight it off(prayers, visualization and talismans) sending that crap back to it's originator.

But that's my whole point - you actively fight it off by using prayers etc etc - so you're not feeding it.

[Kolohe Redux]

Why would you assume it's a dichotomy between two made-up supernatural forces? Both growth and destruction are inherent in all of nature. This is the lesson of being like water, don't judge and attempt to control and manipulate life, instead relax, let it flow, enjoy the ride.

Kolohe

[oracle's child]

Kolohe- i have to disagree some with the, relax, let it flow, enjoy the ride thing. it's not necessarily the first thing that comes to mind when in the midst of turmoil.

[Heka]

I definitely believe in Karma simply being you do something wrong with bad intent it comes back in some way or another the same as with good.

But that's not karma - that's cause and effect.
I do get REALLY fed up with people who misuse terminology (some would say I'm quite anal about it - but hey ho) ESPECIALLY the terms karma and deja vu - but that's another post.

The word Karma is thrown about so willy nilly these days that it has totally lost it's true meaning.
Karma is Sanskrit meaning 'action, effect, destiny.'
It is the concept of many religions including Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism and is basically the sum of a person's actions determining their future states of existence. The effects of those deeds actively create all that is to happen and determine every present and future experience, thus completely excluding random chance.

Most people here know my thoughts on karma as it's discussed many many times - for those of you who don't I think it's a load of old piffle.

Cause and effect is a different thing entirely but it gets called karma WHICH IT ISN'T.

Someone explained it really well to me once (might have even been you WS - or Warrior Witch come to think of it) that the three fold rule works on three levels.
Whatever you give out will come back to you - physically, spiritually and emotionally - hence threefold.
I like this theory more.

As for curses - curses schmurses.

The thing about "cursing" is that the "cursed" feed the energy that is doing the "cursing"

If you just shrug your shoulders and accept that shitty things happen all the time you're gonna starve that "curse" and it will soon bugger off.

It's like signs at the zoo- don't feed the monkeys.

DON'T FEED THE CURSES!

Hedge, this is brilliant. I liked this. Great way to put it.

[Kolohe Redux]

Kolohe- i have to disagree some with the, relax, let it flow, enjoy the ride thing. it's not necessarily the first thing that comes to mind when in the midst of turmoil.

But the way to overcome stress from "turmoil" is to realize you are free, do what you will, look at it as opportunity to learn or find new adventure, see it all as part of the cycle of nature. As soon as you realize "the turmoil" is really no big deal. it probably won't be.

K

[[HangedMan]]

Thanks to all for their info and comments. You've given me a lot to think about.