Before I've mentioned that I was becoming disillusioned with Christianity. I've realized that I was becoming disillusioned with the organized religion, not with the essence itself. It is the organized part that caused the crusades and inquisitions and witch trails, not God or Jesus. My big thing is christianity's stance on homosexuality.
But then I thought of a few things. If Jesus was here today, what would he say about homosexuality. I doubt that he would condemn all gay people to hell for eternity. The reason many Christians think homosexuality is wrong because it says so in the Bible. The Bible is the word of God. Assuming Christianity is true, then the word of God is true and pure. And the Bible is the means by which the messengers (writers) got that word around. God is perfect, but man is not. I know believe that if Christianity is true, then the Bible isn't all true. The writers didn't get it completely right.
I was talking to someone at work today, someone who is a faithful Christian. I was tyring to understand why the typical Christians thinks the reasoning is that homosexuality is wrong. Here are some of the main points between me and him.
He said because it says in the Bible
I said what is the Bible's reasoning.
He said if God meant it to be happening, he would have made it so gay couples can get pregnant and have kids by themselves.
I said because they were made different doesn't mean they aren't equal. Men and women aren't the same, but they are equal.
He said the body is a temple, and you don't do anything that is unclean to it, like drinking, smoking, or gay sex.
I said gay sex is no more physically unclean the striaght sex, and as far as the emotional connection goes it doesn't matter whether the couple is gay or not, the type of body don't enter into whats not a physical connection.
He said but God destroyed cities because the people were gay.
I go no, the people that wrote the Bible put that in there. People aren't perfect.
(It didn't go over very well with him that I said the Bible not all true).
I tried to get him to say the reason why the Bible says homosexuality is bad, but he didn't have anything. He was trying to convince me that I was wrong. He ended up getting upset and giving up. He didn't like that I was confident and secure in my beliefs. I've recently realized that I shouldn't get upset when someone puts down my beliefs, or I can't convince someone in an arguement. I know whats right for me, and that is what matters. This is the first arguement in a while that I didn't get mad over. I actually felt good afterwards.
I hope that this arguement gets the other guy thinking about some things.
Just wanted to share this because this is a step foward of sorts for me.
Debate at work
Good job! I think one of the most important things a person can do is teach, and one of the best ways to teach is to force someone to think. If you did that then you succeeded. Even if he did revisit the conversation and didn't change his mind after conscious thought then at least you taught him to be more secure in his own beliefs. (Not that I agree with him on his gay stance, but conviction with understanding is better than conviction from following blind).
everyone who knows me on here will tell you i will be the first person to go against the biblethumpers andi tend to usetheir own verses against them..chuckles..
He said he destroyed cities because the people were gay. NOT TRUE, sodem and gemora were destroyed because they had turned from god and sought to elevate themselves above god. The fact that the people had also allowed for gay sex was because they were following pagen gods and none of the paen religions condem it, in fact mostour religions accept gays and lesbians as touched by the gods with an understanding that normal en and women could not have. The bible in the story at no time in latin or hebrew, ever uses this as a main reason for the destruction. ONLY the king james english version makes this a focal point.
Staying calm when argueing with christians ia a good idea because it infuraties them, let them loose their cool over it. On top of it you make them mad even more whennot only can you turn what they are saying against them by knowing the verses in the bible that condradict what they are throwing at you.
christians are one of the worstreligious follower not becaus etheir religion is fase but because they are fenatics when they beleive they are right. gets a strong red neck accent(I grew up in virginia so this is easy to mock...) And on the eigthday god made the remington repeater to fight the dinnosars andthe homosexuals...chuckles.. christians tend to forget that the meaing of freedom means that acceptance of other ideas and beleifs is nessary, so if you do not fit with in a small circle of what is normal and what is not then you are not accepted.
So argueing these points is like opening a jihad to them 90% of the time, the best way to get the upper hand is for you to remain calm, have faith in the gods, they will point you to the right direction and learn the bible yourself. Because as i said before knowing your enemy allows you to know from which way to attack to get yourpoints across. Calling the bible fake doesnt help they shut down, they stop talking or i should say listening to you. But if you can answer calmly and show them the condraditctions or point out direct verses that prove what they are saying is not true, then you can make your point much easier.
He said he destroyed cities because the people were gay. NOT TRUE, sodem and gemora were destroyed because they had turned from god and sought to elevate themselves above god. The fact that the people had also allowed for gay sex was because they were following pagen gods and none of the paen religions condem it, in fact mostour religions accept gays and lesbians as touched by the gods with an understanding that normal en and women could not have. The bible in the story at no time in latin or hebrew, ever uses this as a main reason for the destruction. ONLY the king james english version makes this a focal point.
Staying calm when argueing with christians ia a good idea because it infuraties them, let them loose their cool over it. On top of it you make them mad even more whennot only can you turn what they are saying against them by knowing the verses in the bible that condradict what they are throwing at you.
christians are one of the worstreligious follower not becaus etheir religion is fase but because they are fenatics when they beleive they are right. gets a strong red neck accent(I grew up in virginia so this is easy to mock...) And on the eigthday god made the remington repeater to fight the dinnosars andthe homosexuals...chuckles.. christians tend to forget that the meaing of freedom means that acceptance of other ideas and beleifs is nessary, so if you do not fit with in a small circle of what is normal and what is not then you are not accepted.
So argueing these points is like opening a jihad to them 90% of the time, the best way to get the upper hand is for you to remain calm, have faith in the gods, they will point you to the right direction and learn the bible yourself. Because as i said before knowing your enemy allows you to know from which way to attack to get yourpoints across. Calling the bible fake doesnt help they shut down, they stop talking or i should say listening to you. But if you can answer calmly and show them the condraditctions or point out direct verses that prove what they are saying is not true, then you can make your point much easier.
Good points Exilus.
I wasn't calling the Bible false, I was just saying I don't believe the whole thing. He just took it as saying as the Bible was false.
I'm not as knowledgable about the Bible as you are, and once again I'm impressed. It is an interesting fact about Sodem and Gemora.
When he heard that I was learning about Wiccan and other pagan religions he said that doing that was wrong, or something to that extent. My comeback is there was nothing wrong with that, and one of the reasons I said so is being familiar with it makes it easier to argue against. (Though I don't have any reason to argue against it, that was just one example.)
I wasn't calling the Bible false, I was just saying I don't believe the whole thing. He just took it as saying as the Bible was false.
I'm not as knowledgable about the Bible as you are, and once again I'm impressed. It is an interesting fact about Sodem and Gemora.
When he heard that I was learning about Wiccan and other pagan religions he said that doing that was wrong, or something to that extent. My comeback is there was nothing wrong with that, and one of the reasons I said so is being familiar with it makes it easier to argue against. (Though I don't have any reason to argue against it, that was just one example.)