Experimentation

[shadowx]

I wonder if anyone here has experimented with the craft to try to work out how or why or even to devise some new method of actualization (im going to use that word to describe the act of making something happen, eg doing a spell to win the lottery etc...).

The reason i ask is because i have been thinking of the idea of links.

And even deeper into the idea of magick being disconnected from time and space.

Let me elaborate (this may well descend into lunacy of quantum mechanics so i apologise!!)

Say i have two objects, two crystals lets say. Their type isnt important except that one is local (it is, lets say in my room) the other is remote (perhaps in a friends possession somewhere, distance is irrelevant, next door or across the globe).

Now, i wonder if it is possible to create an energy link between the two such that if i charge the one in my room all of that energy goes straight to the one my friend has. I dont see why not, i am just wondering how i might manage it, especially forcing it to be only one way, that way even if it were to fall into the hands of negativity it cannot harm me and i have complete control to disconnect at any time.

Now, my second question is, if this energy link doesnt care for distance, in that the remote crystal can be 2ft away or in another country etc... then that suggests it is disconnected from the fabric of space/time (because distance, as well as time, is a dimension, to be separate from one (distance) would suggest, to me at least, disconnection from the other (time). This raises an extremely interesting question...

If this energy is not connected to time, then in theory everything that has ever happened to the energy will already have happened, so, if in my lifetime i send it 100 units of energy (the unit is purely imaginary) then in theory, because time doesnt affect the energy, even if it takes me 50 years to send the 100 units at the very second that the energy link is created the remote crystal will already have 100 units of energy. Does that make sense? Because even if it takes *me* 50 years, because i am travelling through time, the energy does not travel through time or space, it simply turns up, so in theory time has no effect on it at all.

I wonder what others think of this?

I accept it is very confusing, and i may well be wrong, but to be disconnected from space, is to be disconnected from time, and if you are disconnected from time then there is no concept of time, so everything that happened, regardless of how long it took will instantly be reality from the moment of inception.

This also plays into immortality in the afterlife, for in a place with no time, there is no concept of ending.

[JBRaven]

My best friend and I dabble in these theory from time to time. We have always had very similar if not exact alters. We will use the same "energy pool" if you will, where I will charge Items (or he will charge items) and we both work magic off of them.

He and I have been doing it for 3 years now, working from distances of feet to 800 miles. The energies have always been there without a travel time. But with your theory on the energiy always being there even if it takes you fifty years, while this might be true I don't think we can tap into it without completeing the action because our brains can not make the connection that there is power there. Hopefully it makes since because I have a hard time having scientific debates in english.

I have not been able to make the connection only one way though I am able to cut off the connection at will. He practices a darker form of of magic and because he has used my energies I don't know about the Karma involved (if you believe in Karma that is).

[Buttercup]

I have actually thought a lot on this. I am currently using a crystal to charge a similar crystal I've given to a friend who lives two hours from my town. It seems to be working smoothly,although it's too early to tell. I don't know about this working one way only since I made it in order to charge his crystal AND connect us so that I can feel what's happening in his life. As for the distance-time theory, personally I don't think that the fact that this could work no matter what the distance is can actually justifies the statement that it is disconnected from spacetime. First of all,the fact that it can work even across the globe doesn't mean that it works immediately,taking no time. We're talking about energy and energy is usually quite fast. If you think about it in terms of modern physics,energy and matter are the same thing,just vibrating in different frequencies,so in the example with the crystals I see you(the one sending his energy to his crystal) as the power(electricity) that is sent in order for a TV studio(your crystal) to be able to send the signal to someone's TV(your friend's crystal).
I put all of the above in layman's terms so that I don't overcomplicate this thread,but if you want to talk about it purely in a physics-based perspective let me know.
By the way did you know that there's a new "school" of physics that's trying to find the connection between the concentration of matter and the concentration of consciousness in the universe? I think we started discussing a huge topic here!!!

[shadowx]

The physics of magick interest me more than the craft itself if i am being honest.

Im no science genius, what i know i have learned from the internet, tv and other media outlets but i would consider myself more learned than many (and not because i am superior, but because i took the time to read and learn).

It does indeed depend on the instantaneousness of the transfer. If indeed it is instant (which i would term to be significantly faster than the speed of light) then to me that suggests that it is not part of space, but instead part of another dimension beyond our four. If that is the case then i find it likely that it is able to move in another "direction" in this extra dimension, a "direction" which takes a shortcut through our 3 space dimensions and our time dimension thus giving the illusion of timelessness even if that isnt the case.

I find it interesting that physics is starting to see plenty of evidence for extra dimensions from string theory to the fact that gravity is so weak. The theory goes that gravity can leak into the other dimensions and is therefore diluted between them all whereas electromagnetic and nuclear forces do not and are comparatively more powerful.

I think the problem is we dont have a statistically valid, scientifically sound way to measure the energy so proving or disproving it is so difficult.

The only way to test it to set up a link, charge one crystal once and then read the other crystal. You should be able to detect if there is a greater amount of energy there or not. If there is then you must resolve to charging it more in the future even if you dont intend on using it because it is the future charges that ultimately affect the level of energy you read at the start. So i suppose either way you must promise to charge it more before taking the reading.

[Buttercup]

Shadowx,have you read the book "What the bleep do we know" or seen the movie? It has an interesting experiment on how thought can affect the way the molecules of water form connections with each other. I found that really interesting since it's nearly the same way I always supposed my charging crystals and other objects worked and generally the way I percieve that my trying to magically change things through channelling my intentions in the universe works. I can understand your interest in the physics of magic, I actually started reading on metaphysical matters and especially magic after I spent a year of heavy studying on modern physics theories. At that point I started thinking that all these new ideas in science could well explain things that were believed to be imaginary,like magic,cause if you take these things out of the Newton based physics and put them in the new concepts the logic behind the way they worked as explained by centuries of practitioners seemed to coincide with the physics' masterminds of how the universe works!

[shadowx]

I shall have to look that book up!

Physics is such a weird thing and in time i truly do think that science will understand the foundations of magick and psychic energy, that age will be an amazing one to live in and may well change the course of humanity forever.

Imagine how the world would be if everyone *knew* there was an afterlife, not just believed but KNEW. What if everyone weaved magick like words in a conversation? There would be bad but there are a lot more good people in the world than bad. But i dont think i will see that in my time here.

Have you read about the intention experiment? Another member, possibly Xal, pointed me in the direction of it and it is very much like you said with the water molecules only it is focussed on plants as well. Very interesting stuff, but not documented well enough for my liking.

[Buttercup]

I had not heard about the intention experiment. I just googled it though and it looks like I have some studying to do .It seems to have something to do with Dan Brown's "The Lost Symbol" as well, so I think it's time to read this book (my mother gave it to me during the Christmas holidays but I put it in my library and forgot about it cause I was sitting exams in university right after the holidays). I've read some interesting experiments on plants though that seem to prove that plants can think and feel in a more complicated manner than we thought them capable of. Some of these experiments talk about plants communicating with their owners in a telepathic way,showing reactions that are like "fainting" when their owner is involved in a car accident for example,even if there's a great distance between the plant and the owner. So maybe we're close to proving the witchcraft belief that plants have powers and can use them for us if we ask them for it? I know a university in Greece did a series of experiments on this some years back,confirming the results of previous experiments and there was also a documentary about this from two well-known greek scientists. Unfortunatelly it is in greek and I don't think there are english subtitles for it to share it with you.

[Buttercup]

Sorry,double post! i forgot to write that I was referring to the experiments on plants first conducted by Jagadish Chandra Bose in 1904.

[shadowx]

Interesting, i will research the people in your second post and see what i can find.

it's a refreshing change to speak to people who are more scientifically minded like me rather than basing everything on the fact that "a voice in my head told me so"...That doesnt quite work for me to be honest!

The only problem with research into the paranormal is that virtually every study contradicts every other study in the same field so getting "good" research seems fairly difficult but the US military, and no doubt others around the world, found good reason to pour millions, if not billions into psychic warfare so it must be worth a look!

[Xal]

I assume you are referring to entanglement theory which IIRC that also talk about in The Intention Experiment.

It has already been proven that when quantum particles intertwine with each other and then are separated, affecting one will still effect the other one, instantly, regardless of distance, or what lay in between.

However as you pointed out the question remains whether or not it is truly instant or the speed of light. If it is the speed of light then answer is simple. However if it is instant, and I suspect it is, then it becomes more complicated.

I think looking at times effect in this complicates the matter unnecessarily. Something can defy space without defying time. It is very possible that it works the way worms or what not are theorized to work, possibly by shifting into a higher dimension one can port back into a lower dimension at any point instantly. Perhaps at higher dimensions all reality is a single point thus distance doesn't exist.

[Buttercup]

From what I've read the one particle effect on the other is not instant,it just happens very very quickly. The whole problem with actual proof of phenomena based on this is that quantum physics by nature can't give definite answers or a particle's behavior (uncertainty principle), but rather the most possible outcome (which is also affected by the viewer so the whole thing has got crazy in modern theories). Most of the theories of modern physics are actually trying to prove mathematically things that cannot be proven in experimentally, so the question is will we ever know how things work?

[shadowx]

It does relate to entanglement theory in some ways i suppose. Thus far entanglement requires carefully controlled conditions but that doesnt mean it cant happen other ways too.

Interestingly the theory of quantum superposition (Schrodinger's cat) has recently been seen scientifically for the first time. See the newscientist.com website.

It's interesting but slightly unrelated to this discussion but nontheless can provide some theories for how certain magickal things may work, or even the afterlife.

It is interesting what you say about the dimensions Xal, it would be interesting to know if our 4 dimensions are linked spatially with higher dimensional planes. It would make sense that we arent spatially linked therefore if i pop out of my room from 4th to 5th dimension in theory i would land in a random place in the 5th as we are not linked by physical location, following that popping from 5th to 4th could have the same random point of insertion. But perhaps intention can change there so energy can be sent to the 5th from here in the UK, arrive in the 5th in a random place and then pop instantly back to the 4th somewhere in Australia as the dimensions share no physical locations.

[[wind_wolf]]

hmm its possible but if u do get it to wrk the main part of that shall be that you belief that it is possible