What is a Pagan?

General chit chat and discussions here.
All are welcome!
Revolpathon
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Post by Revolpathon »

everyone is born a pagan, it's just that allot of people get indoctrinated into christian based religions.

amunptah777

(clears throat)

Post by amunptah777 »

lek wrote:"These Devil Worshippers are a sect of Christianity, even though Christianity does not want to claim them."

------------

Lots of interesting stuff, though I would like to refute this above statement.

Devil worshippers, Satanists, are in no way a 'part' of Christainity. Christainity is a faith of those who follow Christ and have a personal relationship with Christ. Satanists have no relationship with Christ other than mocking and contempt for him. Satanism at best is a b*stard religion that sprouted off from a central belief in the God of Abraham in ancient Hebrew which worships the all time loser Lucifier who thought himself better than God until he got his butt kicked. So, Satanists form their own group, write their own "bible" and try to put their spin on things.

I'm opened minded and eager to learn about all religions, but not Satanism, I draw the line there.

Overall that article was a very good read though, very informative.
lek,
your original quote IS true, that's the whole point.
Before monotheism there was no "all consuming" dichotomous "embodiment of evil"
Devil worship IS a christian cult.

There would be no "mocking" if there weren't a system in place to mock...you see? Like the jesters employed by ancient kings to mock themselves, saying Devil worshippers aren't a christian cult is like saying the government of the U.S. doesn't own stock in MSNBC

There are so many difficulties I have with this thinking, not the least of which is the use of the word "Devil" which is obviously a bastardization of the word "Devi" from Sankrit...meaning Goddess...

it's just demonization of Goddess worship by the Abrahamix but...hey...disprove 30,000 years of human spirituality , and I'll buy it.

;)


Thet

hedge*
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Post by hedge* »

Revolpathon wrote:everyone is born a pagan, it's just that allot of people get indoctrinated into christian based religions.
I actually disagree with your comment.

No-one is born into anything.

We are all clean sheets of paper.
It's the influences that surround us which effect us - one way or the other.

amunptah777

Hi hedge

Post by amunptah777 »

I was wondering when I'd see you post something (I'm new)

But I have to agree with our friend, two posts up;

For me it's like this;

We all know that Paganism (Indigenism) (in whatever form from Aboriginal australians to the cherokee nations, to modern neo-pagz) was religion before there was a word for religion, SO, that in mind, we must say that,IF we believe in an inherent spirituality in humans, AND that monotheist traditions have worked for several thousand years to suppress paganism THEN we can rightly and logically say that "everyone is born Pagan"

I donno, seems simple to me, but then I don't believe in the Greek theory of Tabula Rasa, because I believe in reincarnation...so...haha! What fun. :)


Thet

Sobek
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Post by Sobek »

i actually agree with hedge, we arent born anything. our choices and the influences in our life affect in that way. you cant even say that "natives" were born pagan because they were taught tradition by the family and friends, which again related back to what hedge said about being taught one way or the other

amunptah777

teehee

Post by amunptah777 »

Yah, no I understand what Sobek and Hedge are saying, but I guess what I'm talking about is sort of an inborn sense of the spiritual (and kinda of a generalized "it should be approached in a certain way") vs/
the individual or cultural practices involved. :)


Thet

Elven555
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Post by Elven555 »

I'd have to agree with Thet.
We were born into a no-nonsence, magical way of living. Thousands of years ago we were one with nature, that was just the way it was, it wasn't an intended religion as such.

Now, it's something we have to find again for ourselves, as society in general has no regard for Mother Nature. Everyone lives in buildings, most people drive cars, we all have a high-tech way of living, that doesn't blend with the orignal pagan way of living.

So for that reason, I think the quote "everyone is born a pagan, it's just that allot of people get indoctrinated into christian based religions." is quite accurate!

:)

- Elven

amunptah777

also

Post by amunptah777 »

much the same way as some of the latter Buddhist scriptures are quoted as saying "everyone is a Buddhist, they just don't know it"

The theory here being,one of the core truths of Buddhism is
"Compassion for All Beings" which Buddhists believe is inherent in everyone.

I believe this is true also.

Thet

Wolf Heart
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Post by Wolf Heart »

I don't believe we are all born as pagans. We are born simply as human beings. However I do agree that there is a level of spirituality in all of us when we are born. Even the signs on the earliest civilizations have shown some sort of religious practices. One of them simply burying the dead in a respectable manner.

I think that a need to believe in something higher than ourselves is inscribed into every human being as they are born.

Nice info on the "Devil" "Devi" thing, didn't know that.
~*People fear the beast within the wolf because they do not understand the beast within themselves.*~

amunptah777

.

Post by amunptah777 »

A lot of people have mentioned that "inherent need to worship" but while the theory is sound, I think the sematics are off.

I view it as "inherent gratitude", an unspoken "Thank You" from every newborn...a great big "wow! isn't it great to be alive and thanks so much" to the Creator which of course is translated, later, into religious inclination, worship...etc....and that, just that feeling, itself is "Pagan" because what we can call pagan is, in actuality, the earliest form of that infantile sense of thankfulness to the divine, branched into adult spiritual practices without the rules and regulations of monotheist dogma.

:)

Thet

jcrowfoot
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Post by jcrowfoot »

I'm still a fan of the "blank slate" theory. I don't think there was ever one big global religions... everyone had their own, or a philosophy... or nothing.
There are (and always have been) a surprising number of people who are content with what is in front of them, and couldn't give a care about what they can't see.

Also, while we may think we are hateful of nature NOW, many cultures (notably Roman) HATED wilderness and that (chaos) was the closest thing they had to *evil*. This was a prevalent belief back in the ancient world.

Most people now don't hate the wilderness, they just think it's pretty and are rather indifferent to it. OTOH, "green" philosophy isn't as off the beaten path as it used to be... and even today measures are taken to respect nature, by a surprising number of people.

See, back in Greek and Roman times, it was the country... ie. Farmland, that was romanticized. Wilderness was the place of disasters, stinking sheep herders, and the heart of chaos... or Pan. Pan was a scary guy back in the day. All random capricious and nasty stuff was thought to be chaos breaking through the order created by Gods and Man.

None of this "shiny happy" syncronicity thing. Nope, that sort of thing was sign of divine favor.

ThePaganMafia
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Post by ThePaganMafia »

So you are saying everyone was born Pagan and it is because of Christianity people don't stay Pagan? Im sorry but Im going to have to disagree completely and entirely. A lot of people are happy In Christianity. Not all of them are bound and shackled.
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Eretik
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Post by Eretik »

Genetic inheritance plays a role in who we are.I believe a combination of both inherent nature and environmental nurture is what makes an 'individual's 'personality.Rome and Greece may have feared the wild places,I don't know about that, but my ancestry is Northern European and there is ample evidence of respect and practical [and worshipful] inter-relation and action of/with the 'wilderness', which was somewhere the stone age[MESOLITHIC]Nomadic people of Northern latitudes travelled through constantly,in the archaeology and anthropological studies of these peoples. We are more than the sum of our parts.Cogito Ergo Sum.

jcrowfoot
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Post by jcrowfoot »

ThePaganMafia.... please state to whom you were directing your comment.

I know that's not what I meant to imply. I don't think paganism (or any flavor thereof) is the One True Path anymore than I believe any other path is. I think they are all true, and it works out somehow on the metaphysical level... that those spiritual truths are only true for those people who live them.

Eretik
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Post by Eretik »

I think the point is that raising a child within the Christian mindset stops them exploring alternatives and learning to make up their own minds on religion.I found that very true,as a child,myself.This is a complex subject -nature/nurture.Many great minds have argued and pondered on it.Science is currently leaning towards the mixed model, as research is proving both are significant.

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