Is Magic a License to Get Even?

[barker]

Magic is sometimes a license to make more and bigger mistakes. It's also a license to learn from those mistakes.

Yes, and I think that the unmistaken bit is always the part you call "wonder." Just me.

[Florenna]

I'm not sure I understand the OP question - nothing is a "license" for anything, as such, but yes, I believe human beings do have the right to (try to) get even if they so feel, whether it be by using magick or any other means. As I've understood, Wicca mostly denies this, thus I cannot consider myself Wiccan.

[SpiritTalker]

Splitting hairs no doubt.The back story is I'm having an internal debate & seeking other views than my own echo chamber opinion. The echo can become a self righteous pitfall occasionally, or as someone mentioned I sound like I'm ranting when I'm in fact arguing with myself. Thanks everyone for the comments.

I think there's a difference between an option and a right. That's the point I'm tryin' to hash out thru my head. I'm weighing pro's 'n cons to decide if it even matters. The license metaphor is something "bought & paid for" that changes an option to a right.

[Firebird]

Yah that whole tit for tat is too closely bound to eye for an eye for me, which doesn't learn anyone a lesson. Revenge only deepens the divide. Gandhi said. "an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"

Remember, while the anticipation of revenge may feel pleasurable, the actual carrying out of revenge brings little satisfaction and may create more problems and suffering. Acts of revenge do not repair trust or re-establish a sense of justice for both parties.

read this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... eel-better

so back to Barkers question about suffering lessons. Actually the suffering is optional. Nobody learns this craft robotically, once that happens then well, I guess we have become robots ourselves. It can be painful to step out of ones comfort zone and that's where the suffereing comes in. Once discovered that a hurdle doesn't kill you, then you move forward.

bb, FF

[barker]

so back to Barkers question about suffering lessons. Actually the suffering is optional. Nobody learns this craft robotically, once that happens then well, I guess we have become robots ourselves. It can be painful to step out of ones comfort zone and that's where the suffereing comes in. Once discovered that a hurdle doesn't kill you, then you move forward.

I have done can can do this with angels, the sort of binding premise that "we knew it." I dunno, it can go a bit wrong with "traitors" (word is specific). But otherwise works smoothly works in almost all cases. A life not lived to have never ventured that, I say.

[birublackzoey]

Suffering? Well, to live is primarily to suffer isn't it? We suffered through birth, as did our mothers. Then suffered through adversities of Life with some pockets of respite and then eventual death, which comes with its own spoonful of suffering itself, spiritual or psychological at the very least, if not physical. The ebb and flow of Suffering is so closely linked to the human experience, that it is what Buddhism is based on. a set of guides and practices to alleviate and end suffering.

So I do find it a bit funny about that call to the witch's path as that of suffering, because to be human is to suffer. Nothing like going through life adjusting within this vessel form and then watch it wither and die, when you finally feel comfortable in this human suit.

To answer the original question of the topic though, I do have to say that for me, there is a seed of fear when it comes to inflicting pain, be it magick or mundane, onto others. I know in the depths of my soul that I will be held accountable for that, so it is something that I instinctively and intuitively avoid. It has taken great suffering (hah!) to exercise control, and to learn how to wield these tools or gifts with responsibility. Indeed, some things when said and done, can never be taken back. Anyone who has experienced or lived with that regret will always carry it in themselves - as far as suffering goes, it is a dull ache of shame, of wanting to be forgiven or absolved but yet it is too late.

To end suffering, the answer is compassion, just pure unadulterated love. for one-self and for others. i think for witches who are malpractising or abusing their gifts, i do believe the universe will find a way to come back to them. and even when it does, our answer should still be compassion, instead of condemnation.

[barker]

From my (and maybe Buddha?) experience, if you have ever thought compassionately your suffering must be 99% joyous. Why? Because it's not a bad world anymore!

[Firebird]

Indeed, some things when said and done, can never be taken back. Anyone who has experienced or lived with that regret will always carry it in themselves - as far as suffering goes, it is a dull ache of shame, of wanting to be forgiven or absolved but yet it is too late

This where the forgiveness works best on the self, realizing that we are fallible humans, we are terribly hard on ourselves. If we can see that we are all on a path and may collide on occasions. Some don't even care if they are forgiven because they do not see a wrong doing in the first place. Compassion is wasted on this scenario. Forgiving ourselves for going down a crooked path is very healing to the suffering. Thing is, one needs to see what they were dealing with at the time and take this into consideration. We can beat ourselves up (suffer) or learn and move on. Holding on is another way to suffer. Letting go is a path to freedom, enlightenment and end to suffering.
Getting even will eventually draw guilt (in a normal person) and back to suffering.

Sheeze...I need to listen to myself, LoL

[Mr Crowley]

Depends on what day it is.

[Shekinah]

Excellent post Spirit Talker and needed by many youngling Witchy wannabees.

Blessings

[barker]

Magic that wants: yes, anything you like
Magic that wants not: just banishings

I think that's it, theoretically speaking.

[birublackzoey]

Indeed, some things when said and done, can never be taken back. Anyone who has experienced or lived with that regret will always carry it in themselves - as far as suffering goes, it is a dull ache of shame, of wanting to be forgiven or absolved but yet it is too late

This where the forgiveness works best on the self, realizing that we are fallible humans, we are terribly hard on ourselves. If we can see that we are all on a path and may collide on occasions. Some don't even care if they are forgiven because they do not see a wrong doing in the first place. Compassion is wasted on this scenario. Forgiving ourselves for going down a crooked path is very healing to the suffering. Thing is, one needs to see what they were dealing with at the time and take this into consideration. We can beat ourselves up (suffer) or learn and move on. Holding on is another way to suffer. Letting go is a path to freedom, enlightenment and end to suffering.
Getting even will eventually draw guilt (in a normal person) and back to suffering.

Sheeze...I need to listen to myself, LoL

Thank you for your kind words! Indeed, our dark periods and struggles are part of the journey that shapes us. They are so difficult, painful but without them, we would not be able to have breakthroughs and realisations. And I do agree with you, that forgiveness for ourselves is a huge healing moment. It is both an inward and outward display of love, and when it finally did happen for me, it was like being cocooned for a while and cleansed. It was like a door that was unlocked and finally the love got in. But still, to be completely honest, maybe it is forgiven but not forgotten. There is no more suffering from it, but like anyone who has gone on in years will know, the body past 30s and 40s, it can repair itself but it doesn't quite heal back the same way, haha.

We do carry our past wounds and scars, but I suppose how we use it, can itself be a source of resilience and strength, a reminder to do better. We are made stronger by it - surprisingly, this was a concept deeply explored in recent films, Split and Glass.
I was blown away by the underlying theme of those two films - outside of the ridiculous superhero connotations.

[Firebird]

This topic is testing ... Since I did mention about wishing to have this woman (ex daughter in law) "B" who is suing my mother over a bogus claim involving a house my mom owns, to get her comeuppance. ..am I not also seeking revenge? It just gives me a stomach ache thinking about the stress this has put on my mom....And the money mom has had to spend retaining a lawyer. In the end mom will be basically paying the "B" to go away. Mom doesn't want to go to court. I'm sick of abusive people.
I cannot find a way to have love enter this equation. The "B" never displayed love to anyone in the family. I can forgive myself for being so angry at her, but I'm not sure I can ever forgive or forget the mess she has made. I had spoke about cursing the money,... so, that isn't changing the will of another, but morphing the energy of a in adamant object, right?
I've already learned my lesson about casting a spell against a person, which I am still paying for and may be for the rest of my life, but it goes back to the suffering, ya it was a hard lesson and one I needed to learn, but cracking that shadow wide open has given me the opportunity to make amends, mostly to myself. So in the long run it had helped me to look at myself and change that behavior, but if I were to get some kind of money backlash for wishing bad upon this ill begotten funds, I dunno, I'm already pretty broke.
I'm liking Mr Crowleys response at this point, oi.
Bb,
Fireybird

[SpiritTalker]

FBF - IMO there's a big difference between revenge & protecting yourselves from further abuse. Can you adjust intent to encompass protection?

[HopefulChild]

Always one of my favorite topics.

Vengeance. Retribution.
If there is no benefit in vengeance then neither is there benefit in chocolate. Would you give them both up to some ideal of purity?
Chocolate is an indulgence no? Oh but it has small benefits you say...then I would so similarly say there are small benefits in retribution.
On scale of course no one should want to be vengeful and spiteful. But if you never indulge, you can not know balance.
Guilt is a guide to a future where you seek improvement of self, but if you never taste chocolate because you know it only as an indulgence, then you are practicing the same ideals as would a puritan or any other zealot. Reverse it and you have the hedonist maze of self gratification at all costs.

'An it harm none'... It is a great aspiration but even the most devout followers of the god of Abraham give themselves a path of repentance.

I feel fortunate that the only person I have to ask forgiveness of is myself. Yet still if you asked anyone who knows me they would swear to my character and good nature. Why would I not want that in my life.

Ultimately the choice is to the individual to choose if their cosmology encompasses an exchange rate of equivalent or not.
If you never contemplate a link between your most recent woes, and your comparable historical trespasses you'll never get a sense for it.
At least that is what I like to think.