Moral Question

[RainChild]

Harm none is what we are supposed to do. However what about an eye for an eye? If someone is hurting people are we still in the wrong for doing harm to that person?

[Tornadofire-Sylva]

Well, I haven't been Wiccan for quite some time, but I do know that you don't have to harm someone to address the problems they are causing. Any spells to speed Karma, "see the error of your ways", or "whatever you do comes back to you" will do the trick. I believe that if you use your own energy to harm them, then that's out of bounds. But, if you redirect the negative energy they're putting out, that works. A final note: If you want a spell to harm them or teach them a lesson because of what they are doing, you might want to consider why you're doing it. A cool, levelheaded response is the way to go. Revenge won't solve anything, not even your own anger or sadness. I'm not sure if I quite answered your question, but that's my two cents!

[Firebird]

eye for an eye is a different school of thought

[SpiritTalker]

Is your question about use of magical practices or employing mundane vigilante justice? Justice is usually a matter of degrees of penalty vs degrees of harm.

The 2 sources you quoted are vastly different belief systems, and they werent about the same issues. Im feeling fruity: cherry picking Is like comparing apples & oranges. To get some clarity try looking at a 3rd resource: Our national laws have penalties for doing deliberate harm as well as accidental harm to another individual or group that range from making restitution to confinement to death. In martial arts an opponent is thwarted by degrees as needed: disable before maiming, & maim before killing...kind of like politics . It's not wrong to protect ourselves, but we can metaphorically protect, disable, maim or kill. Thus Wiccans might opt to protect themselves first & then confine & bind an adversary.

If you're talking about seriously harmful deviant behavior where lives are at stake, it's no longer a morality issue but one of survival. Degrees of penalty measured against degrees of harm with protection being the first option. De-claw, de-fang & neuter first.

Edit - revenge does the revenger more harm than the adversary & does not satisfy.

[RainChild]

It was something my husband and I were talking about so I was wanting to know others opinions. In response to the karma spells. I have been told that if you were to use one then it could come back on you as well. Meaning if someones karma (the person you are using the spell against) has more good then bad and you have more bad then good. They could get something wonderful and you could take a big bite on the butt. With the situation I am dealing with right now I have done a freezer spell on the person that is doing harm but for some reason it has not helped I have also done a sweetening jar on him and again it has not helped. It is like the man repels any kind of magick used on him.

[Siona]

Well, let's look at the rede... first, the word itself, rede, means advice. It's not a law, it's not a commandment. It's advice, and blanket advice doesn't always fit every situation. As law, or even advice, it is also impossible to always harm none. You will cause some harm in your life, of course. But the rede shouldn't just be broken down into 'harm none.' The missing words provide some context. An it harm none, do what thou wilt. If it harms none, do what you will. The rede doesn't really say what to do if what you want to do causes harm, because it's not meant to be restrictive like the commandments and laws found in some other faiths. The rede is meant to be permissive. Some people have been adding the additional line, if it causes harm, do as you must.

But remember, again, it is just advice. You must be the judge of your own situations, and you must take personal responsibility for your actions. Should you stop someone from harming others, if it would cause that one person harm? Is it better to cause one to suffer, than to let many suffer through your inaction? You are the one who must decide, because you are the one who will, or will not, act, and you will have to deal with the outcome - which could be good, or could be bad. the threefold law is another thing often missing it's context, as well... (And karma, too, frankly.) Either way, the rede and threefold law are Wiccan. There are many other traditions which practice magic which incorporate neither concept. Just something to think about.

As for the person repelling magic, are they a practitioner? They might have protections in place. Your magic might also not be working well if you have doubts about if it is the right thing to do or not.

[RainChild]

The person I am talking about I do not know if he does practice. However I have had some very odd things happen when he is around. I have my personal opinion as to if he has a negative or positive energy around him.

[Lord_of_Nightmares]

Harm none is not a call for pacifism and was never intended as such. Doreen Valiente specifically said this in her books and she wrote it. Rede also means advice. People who aren't into traditional Wicca keep spouting this misinformation despite the fact Doreen corrected it in ths 80s.

Here is a link about it:

http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/index.shtml

[RainChild]

Harm none is not a call for pacifism and was never intended as such. Doreen Valiente specifically said this in her books and she wrote it. Rede also means advice. People who aren't into traditional Wicca keep spouting this misinformation despite the fact Doreen corrected it in ths 80s.

Here is a link about it:

http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/index.shtml

Can you recommend one of her books?

[Lord_of_Nightmares]

Harm none is not a call for pacifism and was never intended as such. Doreen Valiente specifically said this in her books and she wrote it. Rede also means advice. People who aren't into traditional Wicca keep spouting this misinformation despite the fact Doreen corrected it in ths 80s.

Here is a link about it:

http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/index.shtml

Can you recommend one of her books?

The one with the passage on the rede is ABCs of Witchcraft. But Witchcraft Tomorrow, Natural Magic, and probably all her books are worth a read.

[RainChild]

Thank you!

[onetwothree]

A little late, but I always find that karma always comes into play. It may take some time, but it is generally worth the wait. But then I always end up feeling bad for the person who receives it when they do. There was this person who had two choices, one would fix everything in my life (that was ruined because of them), and the other one would make their life 10% easier, but completely screw me over. Again, this situation was 100% their fault, and they chose to screw me over to make their situation a small bit easier. 2 years later and I reconnected with that person and they had a LOT of really negative things happen to them and their life was flipped upside down. And in that same 2 years later, my life got back on track and I not only got back to where I was, but I have gone even further!

[RainChild]

In my experience karma does not ever get to the person that has been hurting my family for over 10 years he gets off scott free every time.

[Lord_of_Nightmares]

In my experience karma does not ever get to the person that has been hurting my family for over 10 years he gets off scott free every time.

Karma works in the next life, that is why.

[RainChild]

Well then his next life he may be a dung beetle hahaha