Is suffering necesary

Post by **michaelmastronardi** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:35 pm

Is suffering necessary? If suffering comes from something bad that happened in our lives or some others person that we care about then isn't it some type of life lesson? After all that is the point of this life on earth to learn these lessons (at least that's what I believe). I know that lessons can come in many different ways but suffering is still a major one, so is suffering necessary? personally I believe it is.

All comments welcomed if presented respectfully.

Post by **Xiao Rong** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:43 pm

I don't know if I would call suffering "necessary". In my opinion, suffering is simply a fact of the universe, like gravity or death. I think it is unavoidable to be completely free of suffering, although of course I would like it if there were a minimum of suffering in the world. So suffering is inevitable, although we can make a choice about how we deal with the suffering, whether that's running away from it, wallowing in it, or learning from it to attain greater wisdom (and perhaps avoid it in the future).

I know there are some belief systems that see suffering as something that we "choose" (like we are reincarnated for the purpose of learning and experiencing suffering), but I don't approach suffering from a karmic viewpoint, for the most part.

Post by **Siona** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:37 pm

I do think that at times some suffering is necessary for humans to grow and learn from, however I don't think that means all suffering is always necessary. As an example, sometimes humans might cause large amounts of suffering to others that's not really necessary in itself, but it happens because we have the free will to choose to do those things... so sometimes suffering happens because it can happen due to our free will, but not necessarily because it should. Hopefully that makes sense.

Alsol · Post by **Alsol** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:05 pm

I think not (I warn, this is only an opinion and is totally fine if you do not share it).

I often hear that working hard is the only way to achieve something, but that (to me) is complete non-sense. What I think is the right way is to work smarter, more effciently.

In this case, suffering is not necessary. If you can prevent something, by all means do it. There are two kinds of people in the world, the proactives and the reactives, the latter being the most common. You have a problem and react accordingly, but a proactive would have forseen the problem before and taken actions even before it happened.

Expect the unexpected. My two cents, anyway.

Post by **Siona** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:36 am

Alsol wrote:Expect the unexpected.

It's certainly easier said than done though, isn't it? You can prepare for many things, even prevent many things, but sometimes natural disaster, illness, injury, and death happen. Relationships/friendships come and go. Others might cause us pain in ways we can't always prevent. Suffering isn't just working hard, suffering comes in a lot of different forms. We can learn to prevent some suffering, certainly, but I don't think many of us could lead a life totally free from suffering?

Alsol · Post by **Alsol** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:15 pm

Siona wrote:It's certainly easier said than done though, isn't it?

Ah... yes. I beg your pardon for I did not intend to sound presumptuous. I do not claim divine knowledge on the matter nor I have a plentiful life free of problems.

Siona wrote:We can learn to prevent some suffering, certainly, but I don't think many of us could lead a life totally free from suffering?

I think that's the morale of the story. Try to prevent pain. You may never live free of it. But given the chance, wouldn't it certainly be wise to try? I think that's the greatest power one can attain: the power of choice.

Post by **Seraphin** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:14 am

Yeah, it's actually hard for most of people to assimilate this but suffering is woven into the very fabric of universe. I believe the word is actually inherently created to be challenging. Both chaos and darkness and harmony and light were there in the original blueprint of the universe.

Some people can't just accept this because most of us think, or feel on a gut level, that our lives should be like Disneyland or the World of Harry Potter -- no pains, no sickness, no difficulties, everything lovely, colorful, fun, amusing and magickal, where litter is picked up by someone as soon as I drop it anywhere and nobody suffers for longer than it takes to get to the happy end of those thrilling and exciting rides. In this model of the world, all forms of pain and miseries are mistakes, unwelcome intruders who illegally trespass through an accidental breech in the white fence.

I believe that our world was meant to be exactly as it is: a place of problem and solution. Every problems enter through the front gate, wearing their frightening outfits and sometimes even masks, on which is inscribed their names and agenda. Our choice, as the host, is whether or not we'll dance with them.

Post by **shatteredsouls** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:12 am

I think suffering is necessary for people to learn some things but not everything? Learning don't just occur from personal experiences, we learn from others too. Problems are everywhere in this world. Just like what Seraphin said, we just have to choose if we want to dance with them. Do we confront or avoid those problems? Do we want to suffer now or later?

Post by **Badgerstate** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:35 pm

I believe that suffering is neccesary because if things are easy or theres no pain involved, how can we push ourselves and grow?
In my time studying Buddhism, I always really liked their belief that life is typically long, difficult and fulfilling. We all think we should live a life where we are happy all the time and then when we feel unhappy, we think something is wrong or that we need to make changes to get back to feeling happy. People often ask, "why did this happen to me? What did I do?" and the answer often is that you didnt do anything wrong. We all are going to have good times and hard times in our lives, thats just life. We can take a victim's mentality of, "why me?" or we can look at the experience as a chance to learn something and make ourselves stronger.

Post by **AnaisStar** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:45 am

I wouldnt call suffering necessary. As long as you are able to find and learn from the lesson in it, it can be helpful in life. But sadly, some people never learn, or even dont want to change, so they continue to suffer and be in pain.

Phoebe43 · Post by **Phoebe43** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:23 am

I think of this often. I wanted to share that in the 4 noble truths budda says that life is characterized by suffering, suffering is caused by desire and that to stop the suffering, stop the desire and follow the 8 fold path. In other words, if we are attached to something, we will suffer. We WANT things and DESIRE things and when we don't get what we want, we suffer. Ex: This man/woman isn't doing what I want/giving me the support I want... or I NEED X and don't have it so I'm suffering. So Budda talks about non-attachment so we don't have these desires/needs that make us suffer but easier said that done for sure. I think he pretty much got up and walked away from everything and everyone and I can't really do that lol Thank you for reading.

Post by **RosieMoonflower** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:56 pm

Phoebe43 wrote:I think of this often. I wanted to share that in the 4 noble truths budda says that life is characterized by suffering, suffering is caused by desire and that to stop the suffering, stop the desire and follow the 8 fold path. In other words, if we are attached to something, we will suffer. We WANT things and DESIRE things and when we don't get what we want, we suffer. Ex: This man/woman isn't doing what I want/giving me the support I want... or I NEED X and don't have it so I'm suffering. So Budda talks about non-attachment so we don't have these desires/needs that make us suffer but easier said that done for sure. I think he pretty much got up and walked away from everything and everyone and I can't really do that lol Thank you for reading.

I'm so glad you mentioned this, as I have been thinking about it since I first read the post. I agree with Seraphin, I think that suffering is also woven into the fabric of the universe and is in a sense unavoidable. But, the question I have is weather there is a way to avoid it as the Buddha. The Buddha have up everything he had and he had a lot, including his family and he went and lived with monks who lived in caves and lived on one grain of rice a day and meditated all day long. When the Buddha finally reached "enlightenment" then his suffering truly ended for he understood the meaning of life and every secret of the universe and therefore realized he didn't need his family or gold or anything. If you think about it Christians have a somewhat similar philosophy. There is good and there is evil and the best way to escape the suffering caused by evil is "salvation". Even gnostic Christians are searching for "gnosis" or knowledge. Just leaves me wondering, is there a state of being that one can reach and be suffrage free?

Post by **AdastraJunction** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:22 pm

Some suffering is necessary and sometime it is not. Unintentionally we can cause suffering of others and also we do this on purpose... why? Because as human beings are are imperfect, that is why it in a sense is necessary because if we did not learn from our own suffering and the suffering of others than how would be learn to prevent it in order to evolve as a species? It is not a question of beliefs or faith but of the human condition as a whole. It isn't just mental suffering we endure but also physical, we are mortal, it is a natural part of mortal coil but it is also an aspect of moral relativism from individual to individual. We are not all wired the same way and many behaviors are learned not inherited. Until we learn and grow as a species it is necessary to endure in many cases, it is a case to case experience and based on our personal moral values.

Post by **Heartsong** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:26 am

I'm also of a mind that it's through suffering that we learn and grow as individuals, but is it a necessary component? Hmm, I believe so. As Xiao as stated before, suffering seems to simply be a fact of life. I sometimes wonder if it's in our nature to look for suffering, and if we can't find it, we make it. Humans love conflict. I don't mean by saying that, that we enjoy violence, but instead that there's something in us that is drawn to opposing forces. If there's no tension, we aren't interested (Have you ever really liked reading a love story where everything was perfect?). We're contradictory creatures, with often contrary desires, and I think that's because we instinctively understand that it's the process of working through those contradictions, finding balance between them, that we earn the things that make our lives worthwhile. It's like the old adage that you value the things you worked for more than the things you didn't.

Post by **Xiao Rong** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:30 am

Heartsong wrote:If there's no tension, we aren't interested (Have you ever really liked reading a love story where everything was perfect?). We're contradictory creatures, with often contrary desires, and I think that's because we instinctively understand that it's the process of working through those contradictions, finding balance between them, that we earn the things that make our lives worthwhile. It's like the old adage that you value the things you worked for more than the things you didn't.

Beautifully said, Heartsong. It puts me in mind of the quote (which I can't find a reliable source for): We can complain that rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice that thorn bushes have roses.

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