Thoughts on "white magick" vs "black magick"

[Kyrie]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I wanted to share my opinion and see what everyone else had to say. I'm reading Positive Magick by Marion Weistein as part of my studies with Flora Peterson and this is the current chapter I'm on. As I was reading, I came across a passage that basically says if we do magick that harms even one person or being, it would be considered negative magick, or as some would call it, "black magick."

I struggle with this. I understand the concept of not doing harmful magick, intentionally or unintentionally. Put it like this: if we do a spell that we think is going to benefit everyone, even if we think through it beforehand to see if there is anyone possible way it could hurt someone...we do the spell, and even though we couldn't find any situation that it could cause harm, it ends up hurting someone. We are responsible for that and we have to live with the consequences. I believe that.

However, by our very existence, we are essentially causing harm. Our overpopulation of the planet is consuming resources necessary for survival. By having children, we are feeding into the problem. So if we say "do no harm to anyone or anything," we may as well not exist at all.


So, where is the line?

My opinion is that we should live our lives in a way that we do not go out of our way to negatively affect anyone, such as cursing, controlling, manipulating, etc.

It is more a code of honor and accepting responsibility than a rigid set of laws.

And as it is said in the movie The Craft: "True magick is neither black nor white. It is both because nature is both." Although I understand movies do not give accurate depictions of witchcraft, in my opinion that is a pretty accurate statement.

What do you guys think?

[AdastraJunction]

I am in complete agreement with you. It is the intent that matters most. The world has it's checks and balances: right and wrong, good and evil, pleasure and pain to name a few. It all goes hand in hand, you cannot have one with out the other. I don't believe magic is black or white either, it is what the user intends it is as wax to be moulded.

[Kyrie]

I want to elaborate on that and say that people who practice so-called "black magick" are following their own code of ethics so what is acceptable to them, another witch wouldn't go near. So will those people not have to deal with consequences because they don't see the wrong in what they are doing? I think they will. But I also think it's a matter of perspective. Usually there is something deeper going on in a person's mind that drew them to that lifestyle. I think there is a HUGE gray area in relation to this topic and isn't really something that can be neatly categorized as "black or white," "positive or negative," "good or evil."

[Sakura Blossom]

I was just going to say, it's the intent. 100% the intent, in my honest opinion. If you do a spell and you genuinely mean well with it, then there is no reason it should be considered black magick if it harms someone in the process. It's similar in concept with friendship. You do something that you genuinely think is for the best to help a friend out but then it accidentally harms them. You're just being a good friend, you're not trying to sabotage your relationship with them. They'll more than likely forgive you as well, just as the powers understand that your will was not what occurred.

And while you bring up an interesting point about grey area, society has established some pretty good lines with what is considered 'good' or 'bad'. Does that mean everything has a place? No, of course not. I'm speaking more so along the lines of killing someone for personal gain or just for selfish purposes or just in general if they MEANT to do it. Then there's also causing physical harm on purpose and that's not good either.

So if someone is using magick to do something like this, then that's definitely "black" I would think given the nature of what it is.

Now, with something that has more grey area that some would say "that's not bad" and others would say "that is terrible" then I can definitely see where you're coming from.

It's definitely a difficult subject to discuss and everyone's definitely going to have their own opinions on the matter just like you and I do.

[Adiens]

My opinion is that we should live our lives in a way that we do not go out of our way to negatively affect anyone, such as cursing, controlling, manipulating, etc.

It is more a code of honor and accepting responsibility than a rigid set of laws.

That right there is something I couldn't have said better myself!

[Kyrie]

I was just going to say, it's the intent. 100% the intent, in my honest opinion. If you do a spell and you genuinely mean well with it, then there is no reason it should be considered black magick if it harms someone in the process. It's similar in concept with friendship. You do something that you genuinely think is for the best to help a friend out but then it accidentally harms them. You're just being a good friend, you're not trying to sabotage your relationship with them. They'll more than likely forgive you as well, just as the powers understand that your will was not what occurred.

And while you bring up an interesting point about grey area, society has established some pretty good lines with what is considered 'good' or 'bad'. Does that mean everything has a place? No, of course not. I'm speaking more so along the lines of killing someone for personal gain or just for selfish purposes or just in general if they MEANT to do it. Then there's also causing physical harm on purpose and that's not good either.

So if someone is using magick to do something like this, then that's definitely "black" I would think given the nature of what it is.

Now, with something that has more grey area that some would say "that's not bad" and others would say "that is terrible" then I can definitely see where you're coming from.

It's definitely a difficult subject to discuss and everyone's definitely going to have their own opinions on the matter just like you and I do.

While I do agree that intent plays a large part of it, it isn't (and this is just my opinion) the whole of it. In the example, you used, maybe our friend does understand that we were trying to act in what we thought was their best interest and they forgive us. But maybe they don't. Yes, one could say that it then becomes their problem and they need to figure out what is blocking them from being able to forgive. But if we break their trust, whether we meant to or not, we have to take responsibility for that. We have to own our mistakes.

Here's an example of what I would consider in that "gray area." Someone who has a mental illness or some deep emotional scarring from some traumatic experience in their past that causes them to not completely understand what they are doing. Would they or should they be held to the same standard as someone who is "normal?" What about someone who lost their job and can't afford to feed his family so he goes out and steals food or someone's wallet for the sake of survival?

I think these are things that we need to all consider and decide for ourselves. Plus, I do enjoy listening what other people have to say, regardless of whether or not everyone agrees. I respect all opinions.

[Kyrie]

And I don't believe that it only applies to spells or magick in any sense. I think it also applies to our mundane lives. I don't see the two as separate. In my life, the two are interconnected; there is no division.

[Sakura Blossom]

Yes, I agree about the mental illness. Ply, of course, Id what they have does interfere with cognitive ability. And yes, you won't always be forgiven so that's a good point I neglected to mention. Vey good points. (: I like seeing all viewpoints as well.

[Seraphin]

White and black are subjective for me, and quite frankly meaningless when it comes to magick. This is because sometimes, your white is my black, or my black is your white and somebody else's red is your black or my white, or fuchsia pink.

Black and white are insignificant for me. You can call them red and blue just as easily what does that mean to you. Magick is magick, we do what we do based on needs or desire.

There are also times when we embark on a certain course of action (mundane or magickal) with pure and positive motives in mind. We may be striving to improve a relationship or succeed in a business endeavor, or in an area related to divine devotion or our spirituality. However, it's not uncommon for events to not go according to plan, and it's at that point that a person's true intentions will emerge. It is at this point where people diverged; their are folks who maintain their positive standing, whilst there are some who choose not to. So what's the meaning of calling it white or positive magick if your pure intentions didn't endure?

Dividing or categorizing magick into white (beneficial) and black (harmful) I think is a past folk magicK belief. This division was created by the people in charge more who made some forms of magick illegal and worth execution and other forms of magick such as healing "tolerable". In ancient Greece if you were found creating magick that was specifically meant to harm another, you could be brought up on charges (thus creating what they decided would be "black" magick). If you were creating magick to benefit yourself and no visible intent to harm was considered, you were free to do as you wish (thus creating what they decided would be "white" magick).

[Adiens]

White and black are subjective for me, and quite frankly meaningless when it comes to magick. This is because sometimes, your white is my black, or my black is your white and somebody else's red is your black or my white, or fuchsia pink.

That is very true Seraphin. Not to mention "evil" or "black magick" is all a matter of point of a view. Everyone is generally the hero of their own story (villains included).

So it's all a matter of perspective. While, I think everyone should live within their own code of ethics and morals, which that itself is subject to change based from person to person...I don't believe there is a one set way of doing something "right" or "wrong" necessarily. I think it mostly depends on as it's been said the intent, but more importantly the motivation.

[SnowCat]

Any and all spell work comes with consequences. But in the case of benevolent spell work, even when it may inadvertently cause some small harm, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. That concept is expressed in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan.

Snow

[Imperious]

I tend to agree with Seraphin, but would (cautiously) suggest people consider Anton LaVey's view of the subject:

"Good is what you like, Evil is what you don't like".

I'm not going to go into a treatise on the moral applications of Satanism, but it's fair to say that a person's judgement is theirs alone and it's entirely inappropriate to try and shoehorn another into your personal worldview. Genetically and culturally, we're simply not all alike and the unique spark of life that resides in each of us needs nurtured in very different ways.

A friend of mine once described the difference between white and black magic as one of subject, rather than intent. In other words, white magick was selfless and done for other people; black magic was for the sole benefit of the practitioner. I don't necessarily agree, but it's an interesting thought. Ultimately, I suppose when people talk about "black" magic they're really talking about curses, hexes or other destructive practices. While easy to rotely dismiss as behaviour unbecoming of the average witch or warlock, I think it's worth remembering that certain things deserve such treatment.

What about cursing an unhealthy habit?
What about hexing a debilitating illness?
What about destroying a bad attitude?

Curses, hexes and other dark concepts such as doll magic are often (and erroneously) considered "evil" through a lack of understanding. The very nature of of ritualising your intent means you should go with what you feel most in tune with.

All of this is, of course, ignoring the fact that some people really do deserve to be cursed.

Personally, I've no problem with it.

[SnowCat]

Who decides who deserves to be cursed? And are we referencing potty mouth, or actually wishing bad things for someone?

SnowCat

[Sakura Blossom]

Imperious,

You brought up some really, really good points! Thank you for sharing that. I've never thought of it that way and I think you posed a very interesting point of view. While I don't necessarily agree with the last sentence, that some people deserve to be cursed (as I personally view that as too hard for someone to make the decision for themselves and that punishment should be left to the Higher Powers); I really like how you posed the idea of cursing and hexing the negative habits that might be affecting our health or illnesses that need to be eliminated. That's such a different way of looking at this and I admire the out of the box thinking.

Thank you so much for sharing that!

[Seraphin]

...Ultimately, I suppose when people talk about "black" magic they're really talking about curses, hexes or other destructive practices. While easy to rotely dismiss as behaviour unbecoming of the average witch or warlock, I think it's worth remembering that certain things deserve such treatment.

What about cursing an unhealthy habit?
What about hexing a debilitating illness?
What about destroying a bad attitude?

Curses, hexes and other dark concepts such as doll magic are often (and erroneously) considered "evil" through a lack of understanding. The very nature of of ritualising your intent means you should go with what you feel most in tune with.

All of this is, of course, ignoring the fact that some people really do deserve to be cursed.

Personally, I've no problem with it.

Nods in agreement! Hexing and execration magick in general is NOT inherently 'evil' or irresponsible or unethical or whatever. Execration magick is magick just like any other -- yep, it can be performed with pure egoistic, malevolent and hostile energies as the reason behind it... but it can also be beneficial and protective too! It's not just used much because most people incorrectly thought its purpose is mainly for harming or destruction.

I agree that hexing is a destructive magick but sometimes destructive energy must be used to help a situation to be resolved or move someone to better place or position. Execration magick can be used to destroy something and recycle it so that it can grow again. Sometimes, that's the only way to stop them from harming you. And sometimes it's the only way to make them see the light about a difficult situation so that they can change their own views.

This magick is like a hot burning coal. You can see a hot coal; you know it can be harmful and can do damage; but that does not mean you cant use it for something beneficial or productive. Yes you can never hope to hold it in your bare hands and feel comfortable with it, but you can use some tools to pick it up and use it. The same is true when it comes to hexes and curses. If we're able to distance our negative emotions from them, we'll be able to understand it relatively easily and utilize it. Like the hot coal, it can be understood and used.

That being said, execration magick still shouldn't be taken lightly and certainly not for beginners, inexperience, mentally/emotionally imbalanced and kids. It's vitally important to understand both the power of humans in creating vibrations and nature of the spirits (if you're invoking spirits in your magick). Many people will call in destructive energy. Yet if they don't know how to protect themselves through appropriate shielding or other procedures or if they dont realize that when an energy is summoned, it must be instructed to depart when it's no longer required or they can find themselves in a very uncomfortable circumstances.

If an energy isn't dismissed, it will leave a space behind it. This space has to be filled by something and often this will be any vibrational energy that is seeking home. A room, house or place where execration magick is often carried out without this knowledge may well become filled with uncontrolled harmful and very uncomfortable energies.