Ok, ive read a few articles now about homoeopathy in the news. The basics of the pills are thus:
A substance, or active ingredient is found, it is then diluted, diluted, and diluted and then diluted into a pill made of sugar for us to swallow.
Seems fair enough. The only problem is this: There is none of the active ingredient in the pill at all. If the numbers are followed and worked out then there isnt even one molecule of the ingredient in the pill. It is 100% sugar.
So does it work? And if so, how?
Im not putting my faith in it much more than a placebo effect. I think the theory is that the water they use to dilute the "medicine" part of the pill somehow remembers what was diluted in it and therefore the water itself has the same effects as the active ingredient that was diluted into it (Even though 0%, *none* of the ingredients remain in the water)
However, if this is the case then why doesnt the water remember all the sewage that has passed through it when it was flushed down the toilet, then dumped into semi-polluted rivers before being taken to the ocean and filled with all sorts of pollution?
Im not saying herbal remedies cant help, however they need to contain the ingredients rather than being so diluted that there isnt even one molecule left!!
Thoughts?
homoeopathy, true or false?
-
Twisted_Pixie
- Posts: 474
- Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:19 pm
- Gender: Female
- Location: Faerie Land
Homoeopathy is part of my practise as a naturopath... (and it doesnt just come in pill form by the way). The water used in homoeopathy is not tap water for starters, it is distilled water if my memory serves me. (i'm not a fan of MAKING homoeopathy, as we did it in uni and it was a pain in the ass lol)
And yes you are right, the idea isnt a placebo, it is the fact that water has memory and stores the energy of the mother substance.
Alot of people dismiss it as rubbish, and that is completely fine, it is their choice... to be honest i was one of them when we were being trained in it at my last uni. But i decided i should never dismiss anything i havent tried.... so i tried it and it worked a treat. Placebo's i might add, never work on me. And the fact i was convinced that the homoeopathics wouldnt work on me disregards the idea that it was mind over matter.
In my opinion, it works, but i also believe it doesnt work for every single ailment.... I'm not one of those people who think it will solve everything someone will come and see me for. Sometimes the problem is diet, like a deficiency in a certain nutrient.... well if you give them a homoeopathic medicine, the deficiency is still going to be there, so really it would just be masking the symptoms, not treating the cause... if it even worked for that case in the first place.
Anyway my opinion is, it works, as i have experienced it myself, but i do not believe it is the answer for all illness.
Pix
And yes you are right, the idea isnt a placebo, it is the fact that water has memory and stores the energy of the mother substance.
Alot of people dismiss it as rubbish, and that is completely fine, it is their choice... to be honest i was one of them when we were being trained in it at my last uni. But i decided i should never dismiss anything i havent tried.... so i tried it and it worked a treat. Placebo's i might add, never work on me. And the fact i was convinced that the homoeopathics wouldnt work on me disregards the idea that it was mind over matter.
In my opinion, it works, but i also believe it doesnt work for every single ailment.... I'm not one of those people who think it will solve everything someone will come and see me for. Sometimes the problem is diet, like a deficiency in a certain nutrient.... well if you give them a homoeopathic medicine, the deficiency is still going to be there, so really it would just be masking the symptoms, not treating the cause... if it even worked for that case in the first place.
Anyway my opinion is, it works, as i have experienced it myself, but i do not believe it is the answer for all illness.
Pix
-
shadowx
- Banned Member
- Posts: 1533
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:47 am
- Gender: Female
- Location: Essex
- Contact:
But still the question begs, distilling the water would do nothing (scientifically) but remove other particles and impurities in the water, thus making it almost pure H2O, however, if we distill it as in some pills, which i read from two sources as being diluted 30 times from a solution of 1:100 medicine:water then in theory we could end up with a number that is probably less than 1 molecule of "medicine" in 1000000000000000000000000000000 pills. given that millions of molecules make up a single, flat full stop there would be simply BILLIONS of molecules in a single pill, so if you swallowed that many pills, you would then need to times that number by one billion you would need to swallow 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 pills to get the equivalent of one pill full of medicine....
Something isnt right here.... Distilling water only removes impurities, obviously by distilling and diluting this much each pill is basically distilled water once again with sugar added.
So if distilling water removed all pollution and made the water truly pure, then diluting to this level does exactly the same, thus removing any benefits of the pills.
I cant prove it doesnt work, i havent tried it, and im not really saying 100% it doesnt but my brain tells me this just isnt possible... Scientifically it doesnt work. The only way i can ever see this working is through quantum entanglement which im fairly sure doesnt happen in the normal process of diluting chemicals (and even if it did i cant explain how it would work but its the only physical way of the water somehow knowing what was diluted in it in the known universe)
Something isnt right here.... Distilling water only removes impurities, obviously by distilling and diluting this much each pill is basically distilled water once again with sugar added.
So if distilling water removed all pollution and made the water truly pure, then diluting to this level does exactly the same, thus removing any benefits of the pills.
I cant prove it doesnt work, i havent tried it, and im not really saying 100% it doesnt but my brain tells me this just isnt possible... Scientifically it doesnt work. The only way i can ever see this working is through quantum entanglement which im fairly sure doesnt happen in the normal process of diluting chemicals (and even if it did i cant explain how it would work but its the only physical way of the water somehow knowing what was diluted in it in the known universe)
I haven't tried it so I can't tell you from personal experience if it works,but I have many friends who tried it and it really worked wonders for them.As far as I know,the more diluted the substance is the stronger the homeopathic medication. I suppose it works a bit like flower remedies,that consist of the dew collected from flowers,so they don't actually contain any substance from the flower apart from its unique vibration. By the way flower remedies work wonders for me. It also reminds me of crystal elixirs as well. No substance actually diluted there either,just the energy of the crystal charging the water(I haven't tried this one to say if it works for me).
Merry meet and merry part and merry meet again.
-
shadowx
- Banned Member
- Posts: 1533
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:47 am
- Gender: Female
- Location: Essex
- Contact:
Herbal remedies i have full faith in (well, unless some Nigerian millionaire is telling me about his herbal viagra 
)
But then paracetamol is a herbal remedy, its just concentrated and artificially made now but i think you can get a similar effect by licking the bark of a birch? Not 100% though so dont go killing yourself!
The thing is, vibration = heat, so if it were to do with vibrations then in theory the water should be hot or cold. The other option is harmonic frequencies but that would require that the substance that id diluted in the water somehow "tunes" the water in to a specific, physical, frequency which in theory could be detected perhaps by using sound or light waves pulsed through the water and measuring the frequencies of the output compared to untreated distilled water.
To me everything has a scientific basis, either spirits, afterlife and magick. But Homoeopathy just doesnt as far as i can see!
Twisted_Pixie, i wonder if you can offer some insights into the methods behind a) making the goods, and b.) how they work.
I havent completely dismissed the idea of it working, but i need to know more!
) But then paracetamol is a herbal remedy, its just concentrated and artificially made now but i think you can get a similar effect by licking the bark of a birch? Not 100% though so dont go killing yourself!
The thing is, vibration = heat, so if it were to do with vibrations then in theory the water should be hot or cold. The other option is harmonic frequencies but that would require that the substance that id diluted in the water somehow "tunes" the water in to a specific, physical, frequency which in theory could be detected perhaps by using sound or light waves pulsed through the water and measuring the frequencies of the output compared to untreated distilled water.
To me everything has a scientific basis, either spirits, afterlife and magick. But Homoeopathy just doesnt as far as i can see!
Twisted_Pixie, i wonder if you can offer some insights into the methods behind a) making the goods, and b.) how they work.
I havent completely dismissed the idea of it working, but i need to know more!
-
Moon_Stone
- Posts: 1117
- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 pm
- Gender: Female
- Location: Where the Wild Things are
- Contact:
Hrm. Interesting subject here. It's peaking my curiosity, in fact.
I've always been a supporter of homeopathic remedies, though I must admit, I've never questioned how the little pellet-tabs are made. If I can find the time, I think I'll do some research on that-- it's never a bad thing to learn stuff.
I can at least say that in my personal experience, having not only used homeopathy myself, but also in having given them to my dog after surgery, I have first hand knowledge of the efficacy of homeopathy. If a dog, who has clearly no way to allow mental processes to affect a placebo pill, can have measurably reduced bruising and swelling following invasive surgery, I'd have to agree that there is something more to it than just suggestive therapy.
~BB~
*M
I've always been a supporter of homeopathic remedies, though I must admit, I've never questioned how the little pellet-tabs are made. If I can find the time, I think I'll do some research on that-- it's never a bad thing to learn stuff.
I can at least say that in my personal experience, having not only used homeopathy myself, but also in having given them to my dog after surgery, I have first hand knowledge of the efficacy of homeopathy. If a dog, who has clearly no way to allow mental processes to affect a placebo pill, can have measurably reduced bruising and swelling following invasive surgery, I'd have to agree that there is something more to it than just suggestive therapy.
~BB~
*M
-
Moon_Stone
- Posts: 1117
- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 pm
- Gender: Female
- Location: Where the Wild Things are
- Contact:
Yes, she did have prior experiences available for comparison, Shadowx. She has had three surgeries since she's been part of my family- first was when she was a puppy, (the "fixing"), which resulted in only light physical trauma- she was more resilient when young and therefore more able to heal on her own- The second surgery was at approx 6 years old, she had somehow managed to get a twig jammed into and stuck into her side that they had to open up and remove... and then at 7, she had the umbilical hernia repair and a muscle-tumor removed from her thigh. I didn't use homeopathy after the first two surgeries, but the third, she needed extra help healing from, so I gave her Arnica Montana for a few days post surgery. It reduced swelling (which was becoming a huge problem prior to putting her on the supplement), and bruising; considerably.
(I'm just glad it helped. I advocate the (proper) use of Arnica Montana for any pets post-surgery.) :28:
~M
(I'm just glad it helped. I advocate the (proper) use of Arnica Montana for any pets post-surgery.) :28:
~M
-
shadowx
- Banned Member
- Posts: 1533
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:47 am
- Gender: Female
- Location: Essex
- Contact:
Interesting... It is nice to see a comparison with all things magickal or otherwise "unusual" too many times you hear "i did a spell for money and i won the lottery" type things where in all probability the person wouldve come into the fortune regardless of the magick involved. But your example is different and it is cases like this that keep a tiny flame of interest ignited when all science says i should ignore it.
Anyone else have any experiences?
Anyone else have any experiences?
Water memory? Interesting. Sounds similar to Masaru_Emoto's experiments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto
The problem with analyzing it from our current standpoint of science is that it can be very easy for us to assume or overlook something.
As of right now we don't have a scientific or mechanical way to measure energy or chi or whatever you want to call it. It is possible that the effects are transferred some way that may not yet be measurable.
Though I personally know nothing of Homeopathy and had never heard of it until now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto
The problem with analyzing it from our current standpoint of science is that it can be very easy for us to assume or overlook something.
As of right now we don't have a scientific or mechanical way to measure energy or chi or whatever you want to call it. It is possible that the effects are transferred some way that may not yet be measurable.
Though I personally know nothing of Homeopathy and had never heard of it until now.
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" - Carl Sagan
-
Twisted_Pixie
- Posts: 474
- Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:19 pm
- Gender: Female
- Location: Faerie Land
Actually Paracetamol isnt a herbal remedy... it is a compound. Aspirin etc was artificially made to be SIMILAR to a herbal remedy that contains Salicilates... Paracetamol itself is not a herbal remedy.shadowx wrote:Herbal remedies i have full faith in (well, unless some Nigerian millionaire is telling me about his herbal viagra
But then paracetamol is a herbal remedy, its just concentrated and artificially made now but i think you can get a similar effect by licking the bark of a birch? Not 100% though so dont go killing yourself!