Vegetarianism

[eileenpeach]

As from January, I am a vegetarian too. But not for the reason most people become vegetarians. After all, animals are food, have been for ages and our ancestors ate mostly animals. Are predators less animals or they are bad animals for eating other animals? I do understand that it's horrible when you think of the animal being slaughtered for people to eat, but nature is actually pretty cruel anyway. And when in the supermarket, I bought meat, didn't really think of the cow or pig it came from. Actually what I find most annoying about vegetarians is the preaching (I am not saying all vegetarians are annoying, obviously being one ). Same with non - smokers. If I want to smoke, I will, and nothing you say will stop me, so stop trying.
I am a vegetarian and proud of it, but the decision came because I never liked meat anyway. And one day just decided I won't eat it anymore. Besides, knowing how the animals are raised and fed with whatnot, GMO and everything, I think I made the right decision. But I do recognize everyone's right to choose their food and way of life as long as it doesn't hurt other people. There are many benefits of eating meat and none can deny them.
I do love animals, really. But I don't think "harm no one" includes animals. Still, if someone decides they are not to eat meat because of the Rede, that's perfectly fine by me.

No, animals are not just food. They're living being, just like us. They are here WITH us not FOR us.
People are so selfish and egoistic, they seem to think everything on this planet is theirs. It's not.

And please tell me how harm no one doesn't include animals?
If Wicca thinks people are more valuable than animals then I'm truly dissapointed.

[eileenpeach]

I go with the nature's way. We were designed to be predators, we were designed to be omnivores. I stick with that. But I know that others don't see it the same way, and I respect those world views too.

Besides, I love steak... Couldn't give it up if I tried.

That's not nature's way. It WOULD be nature's way if you lived in the wild and actually hunted animals by yourself, with your bare hands.
But because of the hypocrisy, you pay OTHER people to kill them for your because you don't have the guts to do it. And that's not nature's way.

Most of you meat eaters just search for excuses like : we were designed to eat meat, animals hunt eachother and so on.
It would be much better if you all just admit you eat meat because you love the taste and you just don't want to stop eating eat.
Also all the "organic meat" or "humane meat" is bullshit, sorry. They're killed the same way as they are killed in slaughter houses.
Most of you should really just try to think what's it like to be in the animals' skin and feel all the pain.

[Seraphin]

No, animals are not just food. They're living being, just like us. They are here WITH us not FOR us.
People are so selfish and egoistic, they seem to think everything on this planet is theirs. It's not.

And please tell me how harm no one doesn't include animals?
If Wicca thinks people are more valuable than animals then I'm truly dissapointed.

Well, who said the animals aren't food? Is it God(s) or just the Vegans?

I eat meat as well as plants because I respect the cycle of life and death and the sacrifice of one living organism (animal, plant, fungi, bacterium) in order to sustain another. Something has to be sacrificed to keep the balance of things. What is the problem with that? There's nothing wrong with that? This is how our ecosystem is designed and I don't think it's egoistic. I'm a predator, but I could be also a prey. I believe, eating meat is perfectly fine provided it is eaten in moderation, provided it is clean and proper, and provided cruelty is not shown to animals.

I have absolutely no problem with vegetarianism and vegans, and I hope you can give those of us who don't share your opinions the same respect that we give you.

[Xiao Rong]

Okay, Eileenpeach, I have held off on weighing in on this forum for a while, but I've noticed you made a number of comments like, "why would Wiccans eat animals", and calling meat-eaters of being selfish and egoistic and of not "having guts". Please bear in mind that there is no One Right Way of being Wiccan or Pagan, and other people interpret the Wiccan Rede differently. You might disagree with other people, and I understand you clearly feel strongly on the subject, but you are being seriously disrespectful to other members on the forum. I encourage you to carefully reread the Forum Rules before posting any further.

- - - -

As for my personal opinion on vegetarianism: I see the Wiccan Rede as a guideline, NOT as a rule, simply because it is literally impossible to live your life without harming others. Even if you are a vegetarian, you must be harming plants by eating them - are they not also living beings? Even if you ate nothing but fruit that have already fallen, you might be depriving other animals of much-needed food. Does "harming none" also mean you can't take antibiotics, because that tuberculosis in your lungs also has a right to life? The Wiccan Rede is a valuable precept to encourage people to think about their impacts on the world, and to make responsible decisions, but ultimately each of us has to draw the line somewhere. As for myself, I do eat meat, but in moderation, and of course I support more ethical and humane conditions for animals. And I won't judge others for how they choose to draw that line, for ethical, health, or other reasons.

[eileenpeach]

No, animals are not just food. They're living being, just like us. They are here WITH us not FOR us.
People are so selfish and egoistic, they seem to think everything on this planet is theirs. It's not.

And please tell me how harm no one doesn't include animals?
If Wicca thinks people are more valuable than animals then I'm truly dissapointed.

Well, who said the animals aren't food? Is it God(s) or just the Vegans?

I eat meat as well as plants because I respect the cycle of life and death and the sacrifice of one living organism (animal, plant, fungi, bacterium) in order to sustain another. Something has to be sacrificed to keep the balance of things. What is the problem with that? There's nothing wrong with that? This is how our ecosystem is designed and I don't think it's egoistic. I'm a predator, but I could be also a prey. I believe, eating meat is perfectly fine provided it is eaten in moderation, provided it is clean and proper, and provided cruelty is not shown to animals.

I have absolutely no problem with vegetarianism and vegans, and I hope you can give those of us who don't share your opinions the same respect that we give you.

You are not a predator unless you actually go out and catch and kill an animal by yourself.

I can't respect people that support the deaths of 150 BILLIONS of animal every year.

I'm sorry if you can't understand my opinion, I'm just a sensitive person and hurting animals hurts me.

[YanaKhan]

No, animals are not just food. They're living being, just like us. They are here WITH us not FOR us.
People are so selfish and egoistic, they seem to think everything on this planet is theirs. It's not.

And please tell me how harm no one doesn't include animals?
If Wicca thinks people are more valuable than animals then I'm truly dissapointed.

No, animals are not JUST food, but after all, they are food. I don't really get your point here. Of course they are living beings and some of them are smart and are incredible friends. But you can't deny in nature animals eat animals. And yes, I don't go hunting, but that's the civilization, right? I don't walk all the way to Greece, I drive there, if I were to go to England, I would fly. Eating meat doesn't necessarily mean you need to go kill the meat yourself. I get it I hit a nerve there, it wasn't my intention. It's just the way I see things. It also doesn't mean I'm right.
To tell you the truth, I have always seen the Rede as something written from people to address people. Most of our ancestors ate meat and I don't think they really meant animals. Of course, I could be wrong on that one too. I have come across many spells acquiring for example owl blood or pigeon blood or feathers. And it does hurt the animals.
On Wicca, I can't really tell, as I am not Wiccan. But I believe Wicca can be interpreted to one's beliefs. So if you feel hurting animals is something you can't put up with, that's your way and no one can tell you you are wrong.

[eileenpeach]

No, animals are not just food. They're living being, just like us. They are here WITH us not FOR us.
People are so selfish and egoistic, they seem to think everything on this planet is theirs. It's not.

And please tell me how harm no one doesn't include animals?
If Wicca thinks people are more valuable than animals then I'm truly dissapointed.

No, animals are not JUST food, but after all, they are food. I don't really get your point here. Of course they are living beings and some of them are smart and are incredible friends. But you can't deny in nature animals eat animals. And yes, I don't go hunting, but that's the civilization, right? I don't walk all the way to Greece, I drive there, if I were to go to England, I would fly. Eating meat doesn't necessarily mean you need to go kill the meat yourself. I get it I hit a nerve there, it wasn't my intention. It's just the way I see things. It also doesn't mean I'm right.
To tell you the truth, I have always seen the Rede as something written from people to address people. Most of our ancestors ate meat and I don't think they really meant animals. Of course, I could be wrong on that one too. I have come across many spells acquiring for example owl blood or pigeon blood or feathers. And it does hurt the animals.
On Wicca, I can't really tell, as I am not Wiccan. But I believe Wicca can be interpreted to one's beliefs. So if you feel hurting animals is something you can't put up with, that's your way and no one can tell you you are wrong.

Ofcourse, animals CAN be food but then also humans can be food.
And if animals hunt eachother, shouldn't that mean WE should hunt eachother?
Or would that be morally wrong, eating a human instead of an animal?

[YanaKhan]

Cannibalism isn't common even among predators. And I wasn't talking about morals. But actually I don't think I want to participate in this argument anymore. I stated my point of view. You obviously disagree, that's your right. Arguing is pointless.

[Seraphin]

eileenpeach,

Can you justify your consumption of one life form (plants and perhaps, fungi), without guilt, whilst condemning the consumption of others?

Also, I don't think it's right to hunt our own species.

And if you can't respect others opinions then I believe it's more appropriate to refrain from posting your views here since that's clear violation of our forum rules.

[PaganSerpent]

I have been eating less animal products over the past few weeks and in a few days I will begin eating only vegan. I've eaten a standard American diet all my life. A few years ago I went vegetarian for two years, vegan for 3 months. Then I went back to a "normal" diet. Now I'm hoping to make the switch to veganism for good. I don't want to be a preachy vegan as we all have different opinions. There are "facts" out there that support both veganism and an omnivorous diet.

I choose to switch to veganism because I've seen enough facts to show me I can live this way in a healthy manner. I don't need to kill animals for food or clothing. But that's my personal journey. I don't tell someone else they shouldn't eat meat (though dairy is something we shouldn't have past weaning age and definitely not the milk of another species). I have my own opinions on why I do not think it's right to eat dairy, eggs, and meat. I will share them if asked but I do not wish to come across as "preachy"

I do, however, believe we need to change current laws and provide some protection to the animals in agriculture. Proper nutrition (grass for ruminants instead of corn, soy, meat byproduct, etc. allow chickens to forage for insects and weeds), proper housing (no overcrowding, allow animals to move in natural ways), proper handling and slaughter. Essentially anything you would consider as abuse to a cat or dog (beating, rough handling, prods, kicking, castration with no anesthesia, de-horning, de-beaking, etc) should be illegal for other animals as well.

[ness]

This is a very intense topic and I have been staying away because its under Wicca section and I am not a Wicca.
But, I am a vegetarian. All through my life I have had friends who are not vegetarians and I totally respect everyone's
choice on what they believe.

Back in the day, yogis and such practiced vegetariamism as a form of self-discipline which is crucial for spiritual development and enlightenment. Control of desires, I suppose. In some of our practices, we also believe that energry from animal meat is not met for higher consciousness. People who were involved in spiritual practices and vedas followed purity in all forms possible including what they ate. Even today, when we cook for auspicious days, we take extra effort cook "pure" food, whatever that means now. These days we don't really know the purity of any of our food.

I personally grew up in a vegetarian family but once we grew older it sort of becomes a personal choice. I decided that I wanted to be a vegetarian. I believe in it and knew from my childhood that thats the only way I wanted to live. So, my advice to you Selinashamrock is, listen to your heart and instincts. I feel like this decision cannot be based on logic. If its something of spiritual calling, you will know it.

[smogie_michele]

I'm a vegetarian of two years now (ovolactic... I still need my eggs and cheese ) and it has nothing to do with my religion. I believe that we were supplied with ways to sustain ourselves, and as long as we are respectful and thankful that an animal (as much as it breaks my heart to think about it) has had its life ended for us, then it is okay to eat their meat.
HOWEVER
I cannot stand the idea of putting meat into my own mouth. And I feel as long as I am a vegetarian, I might be able to save at least one animal in my lifetime. Their are more than plenty of meat substitutes on the market that are absolutely delicious, lower in fat and higher in protein than most animal products. And if anyone ever wants any recipes or tip on how to still have a well balanced diet as a veggie, feel free to send me a pm. I love cooking and sharing my creations

[Lightbringer]

I need heavy amounts of protein, iron, and B vitamins in my diet, so I won't give up meat. A doctor has never diagnosed me with a deficiency, but I suspect I've had problems because of them, and nutritionists have told me that everyone has slightly different requirements for their nourishment intake. I feel healthiest on a diet made up of veggies, meat, and healthy fat.

I know that some people take supplements, but I think if you need supplements in your diet, you aren't consuming the foods that your body was naturally created to consume. I don't judge people on their personal preferences, but I will get argumentative if someone accuses me of being a horrible person for eating what my body was meant to eat.

I'm kind of a dark person who believes in a lot of necessary evils, and killing animals so that I can live is one of those evils. I do try my best to purchase meat from animals that have been humanely raised and slaughtered, though (as opposed to being dunked in a vat of hot oil or sliced in half while still alive). We are humans, and we do have the capability of giving our prey a death as pain/trauma-free as possible.

I say I "try" because there are a lot of misleading buzzwords out there right now...and the Farmers' Market is expensive