Anyone else feel this way?

[Xiao Rong]

So sometimes I feel a little weird on this forum (which I adore, by the way), because I don't experience the Goddess (or God, or gods and goddesses) in the sense of an external, supernatural deity *. I also don't feel the "aspects" of the Goddess and the God. I don't feel like I'm being "called" by any deities. I have no patron deities. I have no special connections to or influence over any particular deities. I would feel strange invoking deities like Isis or Morrigan and the like, just as strange as I felt when people told me to call upon the Christian God. The whole thing feels very foreign to me (maybe not a surprise, since I was brought up atheist and still am pretty skeptical of a lot of things). While I would not characterize myself as an atheist (especially since I partake of a lot of pagan practices), I don't feel fully theist either.

Anyways, this isn't to deny anyone else's spiritual experiences, or to say that polytheism is not valid, or that external deities aren't real. I'm also not looking for tips on how to connect with external deities; I don't really feel like I need them. I was just curious to know if other folks on the forum feel this way too.


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* I DO experience the Goddess in the sense that I think that the universe has a consciousness that loves and cares for us, and I am a very small part of her, but she is not an external deity with "powers" or who can answer prayers or anything. But I don't worship the Goddess in any traditional sense and I have a hard time personifying her. I've talked a little bit about this before here.

[frozenlight]

Not believing in the Goddess?? BURN!!

Ni hao ma? I was just joking about the burn bit! Anyhoo, back onto topic. You and I seem to share a similar feeling towards the usage of The Lord and Lady. I am half taught by my grandmother (I live with her again, but had a long gap where I could not see her in my life) and half taught by collected knowledge from books, other mentors, friends, Internet, etc. I believe in energy, our ability to manipulate said energy, beings of different energy, other worlds and a creator energy. Because if this combination having The Lord and Lady in my practices feels foreign. I honestly do believe that our god/desses of old are either heroes of legend or beings of a different energy. Or personifications to help us better relate to them within our lives.

I am going to be trying to work with god/desses more in the future. As a means to discovering a different side of magick...though I am unsure of this because of my own personal beliefs. I will call out to them in spirit...but I can't worship them. If they don't like that I don't worship them then they could always make themselves a bit more noticeable to me (you listening up there?!?)

Whenever I do choose to invoke my big gun (I have a thanking chant for creator energy i do once a year on a certain day via something my grandmother taught me) i refer to the creator energy as the Nameless One.

Please remember these are just my own beliefs.
Love and light,
FL

[Faerie_witch]

I have a similar belief system to Frozenlight.

I believe in the power of belief and the energy in our world. I feel as if people's beliefs can change the world in more ways than we know. I also feel that there is energy in everything in our universe, and the our beliefs can manipulate that energy.

I don't have any particular deity(or deities) that I use in my magick. I think that the various gods and goddesses in the many religions in this world are different representations of the same Ultimate Energy(or at least people who have achieved enlightenment by this energy such as in Buddhism). I usually just think of it as the universe or Energy.

I'm looking forward to reading other people's beliefs on this.

[Xiao Rong]

I will call out to them in spirit...but I can't worship them. If they don't like that I don't worship them then they could always make themselves a bit more noticeable to me (you listening up there?!?)

Totally get that - I guess I'm still agnostic on that front. I'm open to the possibility that they exist, or that they're aspects of the Goddess, but until I see or experience otherwise, I'm sticking to the non-polytheist side of paganism.

Faerie Witch, I think my practice is pretty similar to yours.

[Firebird]

I hear what you are saying, I used to feel sillier than a monkeys uncle calling out to ..uh, nothing,... elementals I had no problem with, deities, who the heck are they? Recently a conversation here was about correspondences and the law of attraction. If the Gods/Goddesses are viewed as a fragment of the greater whole, an energy that is greater than ourselves, like sunlight... and each having their own archetypal qualities broken down like light in a rainbow, and you are trying to attract money, you address a God/Goddess (like Crenunnos or Rhiannon) in the green spectrum to attract those gifts. I think as humans we need visuals, so anthropomorphism gives them the visuals we seek. We know their is no woman with lovely auburn hair and a flowing green gown with a pouch of abundance sitting on a horse hovering in the ether somewhere...but I am addressing her qualities in respect to what I am desiring. In that way, yeah I can see her there bringing me what I need. I think the way you are feeling is totally normal and there is probably many who feel this way. I don't have any one deity either and don't really feel the need for one. If there is issue I want to address like quiting smoking, then I may build an Altar to the Morrigan, with lots of black and blood and ashes, and honor her while I go through my process. But I would never have her hanging around all the time.
Blessings, Firebird

[raynelae]

I feel the same...

[-Dark-Moon-]

Again... They function as 'props' to achieve the state required for manifestation

Also, similar to Crowleys idea about the Goetia, they probably help to access different parts of our brain...

[North Star]

This is something that leaves me with that 'weird' feeling in some ways too. I do have a strong Goddess connection, but not similar to many I have heard about I guess. I only deal with 2, and have no intention to work with others again.

I have no idea where Cerridwen came from for me, although thinking of how it has been this way since I was young, with the Catholic influence... maybe I just needed SOMEONE to pray to. I don't think of Gods and Goddesses like many others do. I cant just 'talk' to them (where others feel they talk back or feel their presence... I don't get it). I cant just pick one and say I am going to worship or ask for assistance or use this one or that one in a ritual or spell... I did that once, that took on a life of its own when I did. I pray to Cerridwen and feel she has been with me, but she is not on my speed dial or 'comes to me'. I never see visions, even dreams, nothing. I pray to her and feel watched over by her. That's it. I have a Celtic connection from my grandfather, but I was taught by Italians. So I am a mess of confusion to where everything started with her, I cant remember the start of it, but at this point to me, it doesn't matter. It just works.

On the other hand, the influential aspect was not expected for me. I know a little work I did took on a life of its own about 7 years ago... and the Goddess I called on stuck around. Not being aware of this back then I never tried to banish this, and the details are kind of striking... my life has played out in some freaky ways similar to hers. I didn't know her attributes or legend in detail until last year really, if I did I would probably be skeptical myself and say I created this. I didn't. I truly feel we can be influenced by one, maybe through magick if it is strong enough.... Lets just say combining Aphrodite with love magick/sex energy packed quite a punch in my life. So yeah... I don't invoke or deal with any other Goddess at all. Not even a chant naming this one or that, no help from them. I seem to get what I need from Cerridwen, and Aphrodite I might use her again in the future in love matters if I needed to, since I do have an extremely close connection. And really, what more can she do?! LOL

I had to send the info of her legend to my 2 best friends, and they were mind blown. I didn't tell them about the way I think she got here, I don't really talk to others (here it is different) about rituals or spells. Its been eye opening for me to reflect on all this, and talk a little more openly with others who understand.

My longest and closest friend practices wicca but not to the extent I practice witchcraft. She has no God, no Goddess. But she does practice Wicca. I provide her the info to do what she needs when she asks, but we never work with Goddesses for her. I don't think I helped answer your question lol, just wanted to share a little of how I think they came to be, for me. I think one thing I am learning, the differences are vast with how many relate. Even with my friend who has been through this with me, I have Goddesses, she doesn't.

So yeah, a little love/hate with Aphrodite, but what I went through I would never change. I would love to hear others who have felt a strong influence, I haven't seen a lot of that. This is a great topic, Xiao Rong

[Xiao Rong]

If the Gods/Goddesses are viewed as a fragment of the greater whole, an energy that is greater than ourselves, like sunlight... and each having their own archetypal qualities broken down like light in a rainbow, and you are trying to attract money, you address a God/Goddess (like Crenunnos or Rhiannon) in the green spectrum to attract those gifts. I think as humans we need visuals, so anthropomorphism gives them the visuals we seek.

Yeah, I totally hear you here, Firebird - this interpretation of the archetypes of the God & Goddess I can (intellectually) understand - almost like psychological self-program, as connecting to the greater whole. It's the experience of the gods as wholly Other that I find really baffling and foreign; the feeling that Artemis or Cerridwen or Osiris are not "aspects" or "thought forms", but real, honest-to-goodness supernatural powers that are discrete entities totally separate from us, no interpretation required. I often wonder how ancient societies viewed polytheism - did they believe that the gods were these honest-to-goodness Other entities, or were myths flexible in interpretation? (I'm sure it varied by culture too).

I just needed SOMEONE to pray to. I don't think of Gods and Goddesses like many others do. I cant just 'talk' to them (where others feel they talk back or feel their presence... I don't get it). I cant just pick one and say I am going to worship or ask for assistance or use this one or that one in a ritual or spell...

North Star, thanks for sharing your insight. Sometimes I think, wouldn't it be awesome if I DID have someone I knew was completely, undeniably real to pray to? But no matter how hard I listen, I just don't hear it. But I'm fine without it too.

With regards to the differences that you mention, my favorite Pagan blogger, John Halstead at The Allergic Pagan talks about 3 centers of Paganism:



He sort of encapsulates these really profound differences that exist in Pagan practice, even though we all fall under the Pagan umbrella: Self-Centered (which isn't to say ego-centric, but rather the union of the self with the greater universe), Earth-Centered, and Deity-Centered. Most of us sort of fall inbetween, and I would say I'm somewhere between Self and Earth-Centered, and basically just barely touching the Deity circle.

[Kassandra]

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That chart is interesting, Xiao, really gives one food for thought. Different people have different approaches, a different emphasis than the next person. Nice.



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[North Star]

That chart is interesting, like we are all in the same circle but still so individual. Love it ♥

I hear ya Xiao, you have the same view as my friend, it is a beautiful thing we all have here when even the closest of friends can practice and share but have such different beliefs.

[lilmizsunshine727]

I personally embrace the fact that everyone can have such different beliefs and still coexist peacefully. This site is amazing like that And Xiao I used to be exactly like you, now I am exactly like Firebird in the whole calling-on-the-one-for-the-job kind of aspect. When I just do a general healing prayer though I seem to envision just a white light as the Goddess. It's just what pops into my head

[WindStorm]

I believe in energy, our ability to manipulate said energy, beings of different energy, other worlds and a creator energy.

I have similar beliefs. When I started on this path, I tried finding a god or goddess, but it always felt a bit forced. Now I don’t call on any deities, but rather the energy all around us.

[-Dark-Moon-]

I think of it like this...

If you are the divine centre and co-creator of your own universe, then Deity is also a (powerful) dynamic aspect of your own consciousness, and can be conceptualised as an interface of the manifestation of your own will in the universe, and so deity itself is therefore also divine in that sense.

[Lillady]

We are all different in how we practice and believe in things, so not following a Deity doesn't bother me at all. Personally, I have been studying Wicca off and on for about 20 years now and just unti a few months ago didnt follow one certain Deity. I do now and I was actually caught off guard when Isis spoke to me. So you not doing so does make sense . Blessed Be!