Herbal Abortion

[Airlight]

I have no problem with abortions as most people do. There are so many children in foster care....who will never have a family because they are either black, have a disease from the mother, a crack baby, a baby of a rape victim, or just "too old" as most people want babies....and want little kids..and never the older children. If I knew I could not provide for my child I would more than likely abort my child, if I got pregnant from being raped at 16 I would of aborted my child, and if I or the child would die during birth..I would abort the child. There are MANY other times I could very well try again but to think of a child as nothing but a horrible burden that ruined my life is a no no, many children are abused for this sort of reason "You were a mistake!" "You ruined my life!" "I wish you were never born!" "I wish I aborted you!" imagine what that does to a child.
Also, most people who do not realize is that abortions are done before the 24-25 week period in which the bundle of cells(sorry if this is offensive) is actual considered a fetus and it is also not considered a baby till it takes its first breath and actual screams.

Also to Sally, I highly doubt there is anything Karmatic that will happen to anyone who aborts a "clump of cells". "And it goes "Harm none and do what ye wilt" which is what I wilt, is it not?

[shadowx]

Honestly... "harm none" comes to mind here.

Technically that only applies to Wiccans, not pagans in general...

However, if we all lived our life strictly according to the Wiccan rede then i wouldnt be able to get to work (bus or car) i wouldnt really have a job at all (computers, made from plastics and other hazardous and precious materials that have to be strip mined etc... and i wouldnt be able to write this post using a computer either...) i wouldnt be able to eat (because all food gets transported via cars etc... which are killing animals and the environment) i could go on.

My point is that i dont try to harm people, however death is part of life, so is destruction. The key is balance. there must be dark for there to be light, and this situation is all about that balance.

Is it fair that a woman should be beaten and threatened, no. Should a woman take all opportunities to end that situation, yes. If that involves killing the bastard little worm then so be it (in fact, i would strongly suggest making it as painful as possible but of course, i accept no responsibility and that isnt advice!) and if that involves having an abortion then i full support the woman in that situation.

Other situations however, EG the mother being scared, or not wanting a child are different. I think if you are responsible enough to have sex then you are responsible enough to use protection, not just a condom or the pill but both. Neither is 100% but together the chance of getting pregnant is ridiculously small. If it happens then the woman needs to accept that she will give birth to a new life. She can give that child up for adoption but in my eyes she should not have an abortion due to her own fears for the future. Adoption is *always* an option. Of course the man too has a responsibility, if he wants to have sex then he needs to be ready to be a dad, financial and mentally.

Unfortunately too many pathetic worms have given us men a bad name, if i could get away with it then i would ensure that each one paid the price, and i have some truly wicked ideas

[rerejaby]

Why do people frown on abortion as a form of birth control? If abortions is a safe and practical procedure why not? If multiple abortions have no affect on the health of the woman or future pregnancies why not? Why do any pro-choice people question this? Isn't abortion as a birth control a choice too? Shouldn't pro-choice people support ALL abortions regardless of the reason? Isn't that also a choice?

[WitchyLady506]

Why do people frown on abortion as a form of birth control? If abortions is a safe and practical procedure why not? If multiple abortions have no affect on the health of the woman or future pregnancies why not? Why do any pro-choice people question this? Isn't abortion as a birth control a choice too? Shouldn't pro-choice people support ALL abortions regardless of the reason? Isn't that also a choice?

It is, but that's also like pro-life supporters only caring about the baby being born, not the situation it's born into, that the mother already has several children, that the family can't support the child, or that the people were practicing every type of birth control outside of abstinence and still got pregnant, and this includes married couples who don't want children. No, they turn around and bitch about people living off the government, welfare and how the poor do nothing but leech. Bunch of hypocrites.

And I will say that you can cause a miscarriage via homepathy(as I've done it), just like you can use herbs for birth control, but I'm not giving away the method, nor do I suggest it.

[Starwitch Stone]

Google the word "abortifacient" to find herbal abortion information. Wikipedia has a long page (which I think was quoted above) about the topic.

Abortifacient

Isn't it lovely when men have an anti-abortion stance? Considering that men will never go through the fear, pain, and uncertainty of a pregnancy, men will never go through the agony of childbirth, men often do not participate in the hard work of raising the children, and many men refuse to even financially support the mother of their children. Yes, it's oh-so-easy for men to stand there and say that abortion is wrong and that women (who aren't raped) shouldn't have abortions. Even though they realize it, they don't admit that the majority of girls are conditioned to obey men and give in to their demands, so even if a woman wasn't "raped", she can still be coerced into unprotected sex through guilt, anger, abuse, the silent treatment, or because she or her husband believes that women should submit to men ("cause the Bible tells me so").

Abortion is necessary in the world we live in. You are free to have your own opinion about the issue, but it's not likely that I'll allow very many anti-abortion statements to be made on my website. This website wouldn't exist at all if not for abortion. Thank the Goddess that it was available when I needed it. Sadly, many clinics, especially the ones serving poor women, have been closed down in recent years. We've got to stand up for our rights as women. I won't back down or hang my head in shame because I had an abortion. I did what was right for me, my family, and my life, and also for the potential child who would have been born into a world of fear, abuse, and addiction. No child should have to be born into a life where they are unwanted. Those of you who think that adoption is the solution should actually go out and ADOPT an unwanted child. And unless you are willing to take several of these unwanted kids into your home and support and love them, don't tell women that they should have their child and give it up for adoption. Most foster kids are abused and neglected. Their foster parents want money from the government or power over the children. I've known too many foster kids and unwanted, abused kids to believe that putting kids up for adoption is the answer.

StarWitch

[JBRaven]

Starwitch. Tansy is an also known abortifacient. Don't know if you have spells that inculde tansy but just a head up.

[Starwitch Stone]

Thanks, I'll check and see if I have any that need warnings.

[Eagle Star]

Thank you StarWitch.

" I did what was right for me, my family, and my life, and also for the potential child who would have been born into a world of fear, abuse, and addiction. No child should have to be born into a life where they are unwanted. Those of you who think that adoption is the solution should actually go out and ADOPT an unwanted child."

I wish ALL women considered all of the above, the family and the potential child, and the world in which the child will be born, and left. Self-defense may bring harm to another, but is it wrong? Especially if it provides mercy at the same time?

[Starwitch Stone]

Thanks Eagle Star. And let me just add that it's not only the women who should think these things through. There are plenty of men out there making babies that they can't or won't care for. In some cultures, it's a point of pride for a man to make as many babies as he possibly can.

Hey, at least the Pope finally agreed that condom use is acceptable, but ONLY for prevention of disease. It's not enough, but still, that opens the door for many Catholics to prevent pregnancy through the use of condoms (under the guise of preventing disease, of course.) I just wish the Catholic Church would stop being so damn greedy (because they are trying to increase their membership by banning birth control), and recognize that the Earth is overpopulated, especially in poor, predominantly Catholic countries like Haiti, and that the Catholic church is doomed to failure unless they can manage to keep up with what modern people need.

I personally can't wait until all of the misogynistic, patriarchal Christian, Muslim, and Jewish churches die. They are nothing more than cults that brainwash human beings so that those humans will then give their time and money to the church.

[Jadis]

I personally can't wait until all of the misogynistic, patriarchal Christian, Muslim, and Jewish churches die. They are nothing more than cults that brainwash human beings so that those humans will then give their time and money to the church.

Wow, tell us how you really feel. You know historically religious organizations have contributed to the benefit of humanity. I'm not diminishing or excusing their more destructive parts of history but everything has a balance. Everything has its good as well as its bad.

The greek temples dedicated to the gods and goddesses of healing were places people could go for medical care. In the 2nd centurey the catholic church was the first institution that REQUIRED hospitals to be built in every large city (usually determind by the size of the population). Later on this duty was accepted by the monks and for centuries anyone could go to a monostary for free health care.

It was Muslim countries who discovered the tides, the shape of the earth, and preserved the writtings of the Greeks such as Galen and Hippocrates in the 750s. The first book on small pox was written by a muslim in the 7th century.

And many of the scientific explorers were Jewish like Galileo, Einstien, Salk, Pulitzer, & Freud.

Lastly according to the Department of the Interrior, 33% of donations in 2009 were given by a religious organization. The closes to that was Educational institutions (usually in the form of scholarships and free medical) and that was 13%.

[staranashannon]

Oh, the controversy. A thread I started has been locked...So, for the record, This girl is ~NoT~ with-child.

[DruidDreamer]

Hun if you feel you have to get an abortion, which i HIGHLY disagree with, go to a doctor herbal is great for other things just not this. It's great for calming, getting rid of cramps, but poisoning yourself to kill the baby growing inside you isn't going to help. If you feel you must do this then see a doctor they can do it without harming YOU.

[WhiteOne]

Great thread.
I'm pro choice, but I would have to agree with above about medical care. I don't know herbs well enough to produce abortion.
If you can--go to a doctor. I would worry about not taking a strong enough dose and giving the baby damage but not actually aborting it. It seems worse to give birth to a brain-damaged baby that you tried to abort on your own, rather than going to a doctor and getting it done 100%.
But this thread is a good resource for people who do not live where legal abortion is an option.
I got pregnant once and I chose not to have an abortion. But it was my choice--and other women deserve to have that choice also.

[pelias3]

i agree with everyone else. sure something like pennyroyal has been used for centuries to induced abortion in early pregnancy but i see far too many ERPC's as it is. that's evacution of retained products of conception. basically if a fetus is aborted naturally some tissues can be left behind, if they're not removed it can lead to septicaemia or a very nasty form of cancer of the fetus (you don't want to know!). other side effects of incomplete abortion can be highly disabled babies or haemorrhage which i've seen lead to a hysterectomy many times just to save the life of the woman. i know britain is better than most but the first stop should always be an understanding doctor....

[Starwitch Stone]

Wow, tell us how you really feel....
In the 2nd centurey the catholic church was the first institution that REQUIRED hospitals to be built in every large city (usually determind by the size of the population). Later on this duty was accepted by the monks and for centuries anyone could go to a monostary for free health care.

Well.... OKAY! I will! (Since this IS my website. lol)

I've begun to question pretty much all of the assumptions that have been forced into my brain through the media, religion, and other sources. I question the value of modern medical care. I'm not so sure that modern medicine was a good idea. These days, we have people who are basically trying to live forever. If a person dies before they are 50 it's considered a tragedy. When you look at how medical technology has impacted the planet through overpopulation, and impacted our economies because people are living twice as long as they used to (and many women are continuing to have babies into their 40's), you start to see the problem.

Thanks to artificial insemination, many people who shouldn't be propagating the human race are doing exactly that. If they were healthy enough to pass on their genes then they would have been able to conceive a child without a doctor's help. Instead of accepting the fact that Earth doesn't want one or both of those people to procreate, they instead become absolutely obsessed with procreating, to the point where they mortgage their home and pay tens of thousands of dollars on expensive, painful, and humiliating medical treatments. I guess they've never considered a child-free lifestyle, which is quite nice, by the way.

Then you have to consider children who are stricken with terminal illnesses. I realize it sounds harsh, but maybe there's a good reason why they are dying. Maybe the Earth knows that that child carries a genetic defect that will impact the human race or the planet negatively, so it sends a disease to terminate that child's life. But no one ever considers things like that. They only think, "We have to save all of the sick children!! Every single human life is precious!" And what about people who have obvious genetic defects? They feel entitled to procreate, even though it's a really bad idea for humanity. People are so selfish that they never consider what's good for the whole. They just know that they want a little mini-me to love them unconditionally (or so they believe) or perhaps to take care of them when they're old (a selfish reason to have kids.)

One of the reasons we are in a financial crisis in America and Europe is that people are living so long and we can't afford to support all the old people who need social security. There's a reason that people die. It's to make room for new humans. If smallpox or cholera or AIDS wipes out a large percent of the population, there's probably a good reason for it. The fact that Africans continue reproducing and struggling to survive on a continent which has turned into a desert seems over-the-top on the ridiculous scale. You're already starving to death, so you decide to have a few babies? Really? It's not like these people can move their society to another continent. There's no space left anywhere else! People who settled in the western United States did the same ignorant thing. They damned up rivers and screwed up the environment just so they could live in a freaking desert. Guess what idiots? HUMANS SHOULDN'T LIVE IN DESERTS!! Humans need water to survive and you shouldn't reroute/steal water from somewhere else just so you can dig for gold in California.

I guess all this bleeding-heart, "save everyone and give them all proper medical care to let them live to be 100" crap just doesn't make sense to me. We can't save everyone. The planet can't support this many people. Humans are a virus and we need to learn to control our population and let people die when they are meant to die instead of keeping them alive for another 50 years. I've really lost almost all sympathy for humans. All of the propaganda that you constantly hear on the news, about how all these "stupid deaths" in Haiti could have been prevented, etc. is tiresome. It's obvious that Haitians are not much good at running their country. They chopped down all of the trees, they built their concrete homes directly on top of one another all along the side of the mountain, and most of them are dirt poor. Yet they continue having babies and increasing their population, even though it would seem obvious that they've already used up all their resources. I'm guessing that Gaia wanted a fresh start for their island and wanted to turn it back into the tropical paradise that it once was, where birds and animals and fish could live happily instead of being wiped out by insatiable humans.

Humans have repeatedly self-destructed many times throughout history. Easter Island, for instance, wasn't wiped out by aliens. The people who lived there chopped all the trees down to build those huge statues (which were needed to stroke the egos of the leaders), which eventually led to the death of everyone on the island. The same thing happened in almost every ancient civilization that died out. We continue to ignore ancient evidence and we repeat the same behaviors, which will result in our civilization's collapse and ultimately, the death of most, if not all, humans.

Why do people think human life is so precious? When you look at the issue from a logical point of view (as opposed to the emotional point of view that Christians love to take), you see that death is a necessary part of life. If we ever do find a way to live forever, it will mean certain destruction for the human race. But maybe that's a good thing since we've never done anything to help the Earth (on a mass scale). We take and take and take from the Earth for our own selfish gain, without giving back or even trying to live in harmony with the planet.

I know I'm not supposed to say things like this. You don't have to tell me how "wrong" it is. Knowing that it's not PC to say these things doesn't change my mind about them. I'm not going to go out and kill people like Hitler did. I would just like to see more effort put into educating people about procreation, overpopulation, and the need to live in harmony with the Earth. At the rate we are reproducing, I don't think we have very long left to live. If all of humanity self-destructs, will you feel better knowing that at least one terminally ill child was able to live out her life and raise her own family through the help of modern medicine? It's not going to make me feel any better. It's just one more person, one more family, that helped to use up the Earth's resources before we could find a way to save ourselves.

Yes, I know, I'm so evil.