Everything Under the Moon

Post by **SeekerGray** » Sat May 17, 2008 2:21 pm

That was beautiful. It spoke such powerful truth.

Post by **stormer89** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:09 pm

you know its sad that stuff like that is still happening. : (

Post by **Makbawehuh** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:19 pm

The question is- why was the little girl on the street corner begging? Where were her parents, who should have been taking care of her? Was she a runaway junkie? Did her entire family die in a tragic accident, and she somehow got passed over by the child protective system in this country? Did this happen in some country where there -are- no programs in place to help that kid?

Sorry, but when I see someone standing on the street corner begging, my response is "How did you get here and why aren't you working to fix it?" not, "Oh -God-, WHY do you let it happen?" That's just the same old cop-out that people have been using for millenia, phrased in pretty pagan ways. "-They- don't want to do anything about it, so I'll go blame -GOD- like it's any of my business. And when he tells me to take responsibility for someone who's going to loot my paycheck, I'll just go ahead and let he and they do it! YAY!"

Uh, no.

I do not take blame for other people's actions or lack thereof, and neither should you.

Eartheartdragonfly · Post by **Eartheartdragonfly** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:41 pm

Post by **Makbawehuh** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:57 am

You say that to someone who doesn't believe in angels, m'dear. Which means that the point is moot. You -have- to have a better reason than that me to not interrogate that kid before forking over my hard earned cash.

Besides, I love just fine, and the people I love know how to take care of themselves and the people around them. Amazing, how that works.

Post by **Addicus** » Fri May 30, 2008 2:10 am

very utilitarian story...

Post by **watershield** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:26 am

Eartheartdragonfly
I've read your introduction which really says very little
I've read your replies which are all very sweet and ......loving

Just what path do you follow?

Eartheartdragonfly · Post by **Eartheartdragonfly** » Sat May 31, 2008 11:07 am

Post by **Makbawehuh** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:32 am

You didn't offend me, I'm just pointing out that the whole story points out a glaring fallacy that's been the downfall of good people for centuries, because it allows people who aren't logical enough to think on their own, to feel guilty for a situation they did not create.

Churches and conmen have been using this tactic for as long as there have been people who wanted to listen to what other people say, instead of relying on their own minds to make decisions. They tell people those things and then they say "but if you gave them all your money, or better yet, gave ME your money to give to them, you don't have to feel guilty because the world will be right." Of course, I could say that anyone who falls into that trap deserves to be robbed blind... But I'm just a little too tenderhearted for that.

Or am I?

Eartheartdragonfly · Post by **Eartheartdragonfly** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:27 am

Post by **Addicus** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:40 am

Okay look, its like this....

Most of us(those who are supporting themselves) are living well and have many luxories that are really unneeded. So, by virtue of this story, we should take from ourselves and give to the less fortunate until everyone is satisfied because you can't very well help one person or group in need without helping them all; that would be hypocritical.

I'm not sure if the above made sense.... but yea... if you've studied the philosophy of Utilitarianism, then you would kind of understand how the whole 'helping people in need' is ideally nice, but practically unreasonable.

Blessings
-Wynter

Eartheartdragonfly · Post by **Eartheartdragonfly** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:22 am

very taXing

hmm, me thinKs ..the interest of each individual is important for humanity to thrive.

Post by **Makbawehuh** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:51 am

Addicus, those things that aren't necessary are things I"ve worked for and earned. Call me a materialist, but I take a certain amount of pride I what I've been able to get for myself. In practical eyes, they're toys. In a more emotional tone, they're a trophy of what I've worked for.

And in the trophy sense, I -do- 'need' them. Because if I don't have them, I have no reminder of what I work for. I bought a PSP, for example. Do I ever play it? No. I keep it around in case I want to, but what it really is, is a reminder of something I worked my ass off to get. Why? I wanted one. No other reason than that. It's a goal achieved, a trophy earned. A pat on the back from myself.

As for helping people.. I have no problem with helping people. I just want to know who I'm helping and why. I have no problem giving change to a bum if he's got a sign up that says "I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna buy booze" because, hey, at least I know what he's doing with what I give him. Of course, he got food, but still...

But some kid standing on a streetcorner? Every single question I asked was valid, and should be answered before I should feel compelled to help. I knew a "lady" (for lack of a better term) who was a little younger than myself, had three kids, and who would regularly beg. She refused to work. She was on welfare and food stamps, and she was planning on having MORE kids, because it would increase her benefits. This same person gifted me with a stolen scarf from the local witchy shop just before I ceased associating with her. She and I had many long talks about her behavior, because to be quite frank, she didn't need to beg (She was scamming the system quite well enough, without any help) and I found her behavior sickening.

Her response?

It was easier to get people to feel sorry for her and pay her than it was to do some honest work. And because of all the people out there who LOVE to help, she made more by begging than I did working ten hour shifts.

So yes, when it comes to helping people... I have major issues.

Post by **Addicus** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:04 am

Maybe I didn't articulate myself well enough the first time.

Most of us(those who are supporting themselves) are living well and have many luxories that are really unneeded. So, by virtue of this story, we should take from ourselves and give to the less fortunate until everyone is satisfied because you can't very well help one person or group in need without helping them all; that would be hypocritical.

(mind you the above is my interpretation of the stories message.)

Look up what Utilitarianism is, and the problems with the philosophy. That is what I meant to put as my response.

But, I think that a good natured story was taken, picked apart apart and spun into something bad which was then blown out of proportion. I apologize for any offense I may have commited to anyone

Maybe its time this thread be locked?

Blessings
-Wynter