GAY for PRAY? @!(&#*!^#*&!^@!~!!!!)

[AkanaAnash]

(now that I've got your attention)

No no...not some horrid queer televangelist nightmare...although...it might make an interesting comedy sketch.


Wanted to say a few things about being gay and pagan


You know something.....I was just about to post an article here...written
by someone else...but I think...fuqu it...

I'll talk about my own experience.

See, where I grew up, gays aren't even human, they're a surrealist defamation, a forgotten scab of a cut in heteroness that no one
wants to think about and no one does.
Gay people there aren't thought of as something to be "tolerated" or even
discussed. Gay people are like monsters from fairy tales, and if you
run into "one of them" then run...run as fast and as far away as you
can...tell a grownup...tell the police...tell anyone
Being gay there isn't a crime...it's an abhorence...an unthinkable, unspeakable, unnatural thing and there aren't any more words
I have to describe their feeling on the matter...except to say
that's it's o.k. because their bible says it is.

If you're pagan...'Tru, 'Wic, "new age", doesn't matter...
you worship the devil and you what?

They're right! They're right because from a sick point of view, natural and
beautiful things seems horrible.

From a prison, freedom seems like an awful thing.

The people in the town where I grew up are not awful people,
were I the king of the world, I would not have them locked up or killed,
I would, however, tell them to seek help.

Certain people want to know why I persist in this quest to bring
GLBT Pagans to the forefront...

I'll tell you.

It's because I will not be an "evil" thing...I will not be derided or mocked or told I am going to a hell in which I do not believe.
I will not "fit in" to their perceptions of Pagan...I will not be called
a devil worshiper. I will not be called a baby eater.
I will not be mentioned casually, at parties, as "that witch guy"

I will not tolerate their ignorance. I will not tolerate being "less than"

I will...however...practice my religion and my speak my beliefs wherever I choose...I will be recognized.

We...will be recognized.

'nuff said, ya'll

[hedge*]

Do you like living in Beijing Thet?
It must be difficult for you more so there than a lot of other countries which are learning to be more tolerant of people's sexual inclinations AND religious choices.

[Kolohe Redux]

The idea that God would be deeply concerned with your sex life is utterly absurd.

Kolohe

[stormer89]

no joke.

[The Mystic Pilgrim]

I applaud you for being who you are with no apologies. You would stick to that with every fiber in your being. With that said...

There are a lot of misguided people in the world. There are a lot of people who would attack you for not sharing their myopic view what what being "normal" means. Should we return their hatred with violence? No. Should we return their hatred with more hate or even contempt? No. So, what should we do?

We should return their hate with love. We should return their contempt with forgiveness. We should return their intolerance with understanding. After all, there is no better karma than giving of ourselves, freely, without expecting anything in return. It's easy to love our friends, but what becomes hard is showing compassion to those who hate us.

I'm a gay man myself. So, I understand how hard it to do what I'm saying, but ultimately it's what we should all do, because it proves that we aren't as myopic and close minded as those "other religions"

[Heka]

i feel sorry for the misguided people. its a shame they cant see anyother side of an issue. and its not always their fault.

great to see your courage thet

Blessings

heka

[AkanaAnash]

Hedge,

Actually, I like it very much.

Though I am not one to take advantage
of the situation, Westerners here are
treated with, uhmmmm...shall I say
"more" respect than Chinese.

I'm assuming it's because these folks think
we are all filthy rich...which, by
comparrison, we are.

Besides being queer...my appearence is
somewhat...atypical..and though I get
sort of the same reaction as I would in
the states, the Chinese are incredibly
polite and view my bizarre demeanor
in a much more wholistic way.

In other words, I'd rather be alien
in a culture in which I am inherently so, than
be alienated in a society which is supposed
to have "freedom and justice for all"


Hey Mystic,

I do understand them...and pray for benevolence
for them and their families...I just don't want
to be around them.
Like if you knew I carried around a piece of paper
in my wallet that says all people who like fairies
should be murdered...would you want to even have a cup
of coffee with me?

Heka,

Thanks, but I gotta say, it was courage until it
simply became a resolute mind-set.
I don't view myself as brave...just fed-up.

[Shaman of Bliss]

Dude I love ya, but you gotta shift gears some times. Some times pride doesn't need to be right in your face...

-with love,

a member of the GLBT and Pagan Community.


You know I don't take SH** either, but dude. sometimes hate isnt' the answer. How often have I just wanted to run scream and cry, to rip away at anothers flesh because they hate me for what I am. We didn't choose. I get it, but we all have to deal. I've been to that dark place, where bitterness makes you a hater, where anger envelopes reason, and where the ends justifies the means.

but we need to realise, that place... that point in life is the devil itself.


We in the west are so concerned with the evils of the outside world, that we don't look at the evils within. Sure children are starving in africa, but their being raped in parks in the west.

I'm gettind side tracked, but the point is. DEAL!

Your venom only reminds me of my own, and I remember the hate within myself. I'm trying really hard to control it, and it hurts me to see you hurting this way. Don't even play the "its not hurt, its resolve.." card, cause I've been their, the anger fades and you become hollow.


I don't know, just... don't...

[AkanaAnash]

Shaman,

Again, I think we're having communication issues.

You view my post as hatred. It is not so.

It is a resolution. A simple statement about intent.

We will be recognized. I am working to ensure this.

And I am hoping other will be interested in this supporting

this effort.

This has nothing to do with hatred.

Apparently you missed the part where I don't hate people.
I hate ideas.

Thet

[Makbawehuh]

*nods* And there's nothing wrong with detesting some of the nasty ideas that get spread around.

If you guys haven't caught it from some of my prior posts, I know those responses from people quite well enough... My way of dealing hasn't been to love them, and Mystic says... I simply moved to a place where they were relatively rare, got as far away from the ones "close" to me as I could, and ignored them.

They cannot be educated, because they do not want to be educated. You can't love them, unless you're a saint and capable of loving someone who would happily kill you if it didn't mean imprisonment or the death penalty for them. Hating them gives them more time than they're worth, and more energy than they deserve.

I do not place concern or care into anything if I feel it's going to be wasted, and I honestly believe that any effort put into educating "Those" folks -would- be wasted.

So I ignore them whenever I can, and find ways to be obnoxious the rest of the time.

My time, when I get it, is spent talking to the children... Which is odd, because I really don't -like- children. The reason for this is simple... I can't do crap about their parents, but kids haven't got all the same ideas their parents do. If you find a pre-adolescent, though, -every- idea is being soaked up and considered on some level. Things aren't set... With kids, you have the chance to plant the seed that says "Hey, this person is a human... This person is okay... This person just isn't exactly like me."

Call me dirty and underhanded if you like. I call it using the tactics of the enemy against them.

[AkanaAnash]

Well said Quantum.

Again I'll just state, the problem is not the people involved.
The problem is the ideas.

They don't need to be destroyed (as this is almost impossible except through huge gaps of history) The ideas themselves need to be mutated, evolved, changed.



Thet

[Addicus]

Kudos to you!

I'm also a gay pagan! So, there you go.

Fought most of my life for acceptance. Recently realized that true acceptance comes from within. Its just a bonus if outsiders like me for me.

Intolerance though, nasty stuff. Started a GSA at my high school.

[Lexi]

Depending on the area you live, it's sometimes hard for others to accept you are Pagan, or gay or both. I think some people really believe this combination is some sort of absurd demonic illness of some sort.

Here in Greece, I have found that it's rare for gay people to come out at all. At least in high school it's impossible - the insults that even people who others think *might* be gay have to hear are horrible. But even later in life, there are so many that are hiding who they really are because others are too narrow-minded and can't understand that gay people are as normal as the rest of them.

And let's not even start a discussion on the acceptence of Paganism in Greece.... There's an important difference with America - here religion and state are not seperated, and it seems like more than 80% of the people are Christian, and the rest are immigrants who kept their own religion. The small percentage of Pagans are considered some sort of freak show...

I consider myself a Pagan and I am also bisexual. From the people I know, there must be around 4 that know about both these facts. One of them is a bisexual guy, and my best friend, so it didn't cause us any trouble in our friendship. But I'm sad to say that a common friend of ours who I thought would understand has recently told me in a discussion that being gay is abnormal and that there should be a "gay-free" pill. Gay-free, these were his exact words.

I don't want to hide, but I don't want to have to face this kind of treatment. No Pagan, no gay person, nobody should have to face other people telling him he is unnatural, that he's a freak. I wish people here were more accepting, but I guess no matter where you go, there always are some who will not accept anything outside of what they personally consider normal. It's sad.

[Shadow_Kitten]

I applaude your bravery, I think it's really great that you feel that way and I really wish that others were more accepting. I HATE discrimination.

[kgwitch]

I agree 100% with everything you said on the first post. One thing that really annoys me is how when you come out as gay, people seem to think that's all there is!!! I'm gay, but I'm also a witch, an empath, a good student who someday hopes for a journalism career... there's so much more to me than my sexual preference, but once you tell people about your sexuality, some people just don't seem to care about the rest of your personality.
To me, my sexuality is like my eye colour or how tall I am. It is a part of me but it certainly does not make me!