Christian witchcraft?

Discussion for and about Christian witches and pagans. How do you merge your two belief systems? Please be kind to Christian witches. I have come to believe that it is a very valid belief system.
LyrioIsabel
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Christian witchcraft?

Post by LyrioIsabel »

Ok so this is kind of sad but the first time I even thought about christian magick/witchcraft was when I was reading a book series. One of the minor characters was a christian wicth. Before then, I thought I had to give up all of my past christian beliefs to be a part of the pagan religion, since it did come before christianity. But after reading that, something clicked. I could still worship God and before I go on, my ultimate belief is in God, but I also believe that the gods of other religions and pantheons all are different parts of God. Anywho, I tried telling my mother and well she just broke down in tears. Maybe it was my teenage angst but I often get so mad at my mom because she gets mad at me for not being a perfect christian yet I have found so many things in her room that I could just throw in her face, because trust me, the stuff I find is not even remotely christian. I have always felt that I don't belong in the normalcy of the church and that my place in life lay outside of its walls.

So I really need a lot of guidance because I honestly have the worst war going on inside my head and I'm afraid that if I don't get it resolved soon, I'm going to go insane...
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Peregrine
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Post by Peregrine »

Since there are over 30,000 different Christian denominations, along with hybrid belief systems such as Christian mysticism, Christian shamanism, Christian Taoism, Christian Gnosticism, and Christian Deism, I wonder what exactly is a "perfect Christian" and what is "the normalcy of the church." We don't have that many threads here on this particular board, but there are some good comments and links to other resources that might be worth a look-see as a starting point.
LyrioIsabel
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Post by LyrioIsabel »

Ok lets just say I live in the south and when I say perfect christian (according to my mothers views) I mean southern baptist.
'Nature Is a Precious Gift
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Love the Earth With All Your Fire
It´s in Your Soul Your One Desire'
shadowx
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Post by shadowx »

You cant do it....

Christianity is an intolerant religion, the bible bangs on about how divination makes you evil and you go to hell and how witches are evil and all this other crap. Essentially you will be a christian who "worships the devil" as many christians, if not the bible, would put it.

Christianity has rules if you cant follow ALL of those rules you loose the right to be a christian. Simples.

The bible takes a VERY dim view of "earth worship" (yeh nice, what you mean look after the world we live on? Wouldnt want to do that would we god? What, drive my 4x4 everywhere? Yup, shall do! Cheers big fella)

also it is arguable as to what defines a god. Are you a god? Yup. Am i? Yup. Witches are even more so "godly" in the sense that as a witch YOU are in control. none of this "please god i need money to feed my kids" its "Listen up, i need money, i want it in my bank account in 7 days to feed my kids. Nothing more nothing less. Now do it!"

Christianity and witchcraft are so un-connectible, you just cant do it.

You have to choose either christianity and begging before your god for forgiveness for things you didnt do (lets remember that christianity blames women for everything.... Original sin was a woman and christianity in general hates women. Look at the stir up when women want to become high ranking members of the church. The pope has to be passed over the heads of bishops etc.. so they can look up his gown and double check that he actually has balls. I kid you not. Nowadays he wears undergarments but not so long ago they had to check he had a penis because once a woman snuck in. Thats how lovely it all is.)

Or you can choose witchcraft, where you make the rules and you choose to follow them or not.

Im not going to suggest either one, you decide. Me. ill be sitting with satan getting toasty and warm

:D

Dont take it all personally, i just hate christianity, it is a TERRIBLE religion that has so much blood to answer to and yet ignores it. The frikking pope has his own god damned country made of gold and yet jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to pass into heaven. Good luck with that popey!
Traumwandlerin
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Post by Traumwandlerin »

So, what do you wish to integrate from the christian beliefsystem? What is the essence to you? Just for a moment, don't care about your mother here, care about you.
LyrioIsabel
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Post by LyrioIsabel »

Shadowx: I for a while hated christianity but then I realized I hated what people made it.

Traumwandlerin: Well some of the things in the bible speak to me. Now grant it that there is a lot of crap in the bible but really the only one I like is the verse about love. Other than that I would like to go full wiccan just because yes it is what I feel called to and until the day where I am free to make descions on my own, my mother kind of controls it. And it also doesnt help that everytime I light a candle or incense my dads like ' so are you have a seance? Are you casting a spell?' and that honestly hurts too because I have to deal with it. Another thing is that yes I have a boyfriend who is supportive and one friend who is interested in this stuff too but I don't have anyone to ask personal questions or someone to give me one on one guidance. Sorry if I'm rambling but I just need someone who I can spill this too because I have to hide it in my life, which i hate doing.
'Nature Is a Precious Gift
It Will Make Your Spirits Lift
Love the Earth With All Your Fire
It´s in Your Soul Your One Desire'
shadowx
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Post by shadowx »

If you only like one verse in the bible then you arent really christian....
Traumwandlerin
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Post by Traumwandlerin »

Shadowx, there are so many christian sects, I guess you refer to one or just a few specific churches. Like in witchcraft where there are freestyle witches, there are in christianity always those who seeked the truth on their own rather than just take what's already there. Cause you know, after 1000 years of interpretation, where political issues decided what you believe, you can't believe what we got today in mainstream christianity is anything like the true form of it. So every few years someone pops out the ground with a better or unique understanding of the essences of christianity, like Luther did it about 1500 when he initiated the protestant reformation. And many other christian find their way to god on a solitary path.

So LyrioIsabel, just read the bible and any secondary literature you like, talk to people about their vision of god. Until you understand what Christianity means to you and only to you. This would probably be a long way from your southern origin, but in other regions would still be a perfectly good Christian.

To me Christianity is also a love-centered religion and Christ is an inspiring figure to show you what kind of forms love could take. Of course the bible contains many parts which only have the value of a parable. But many good religions tell you stories which should reach your soul and not your mind. And of course while reading the bible you should have in mind, that a lot of these were translated many times in different ways with a lot of interpretation on the way.

And what is the essence of your witchcraft? When you say Christianity is a love-centered religion your witchcraft should also be love-centered, so it fits.
shadowx
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Post by shadowx »

Except there isnt more than one christianity...

Christianity, like Judaism and Islam etc... are structured religions. You either follow EVERYTHING they say, to the letter, or you arent a member of that religion. Simple.
Traumwandlerin
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Post by Traumwandlerin »

No, you just aren't a member of this church, which is a huge difference ;) There are a lot churches of Christianity.

And do you say the same to all those solitary Wiccans?
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Post by shadowx »

Yes, yes i do.

Christianity is based on the bible and a story. It isnt based on churches.

Same applies to wicca, there are these "Wiccans" that say "oh hai, im teh wiccanz but i dont believez in teh god and goddess, only teh goddess/random"

You cant be a wiccan if you dont believe in a god and a goddess and all the rest of it.

Its bull for weak minded individuals who are too scared to walk their own path and be their own person.
Traumwandlerin
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Post by Traumwandlerin »

Hehe, at least you are consistent :) I like that :) I don't know much about Wicca, but there are also different pathes in their, but as far as I know everyone contains an initiation. Just as Christianity needs. So what if a few years after initation you decide you've learned enough and now want to evolve your own religion, seek an interpretation for your own?

Wicca was founded by humans. Someone kind of just sat there and thought "Wouldn't it be cool to.." (ok, lot of meditation and things were involved). So I don't see why anyone who had studied Wicca shouldn't say "Yeah, was a nice idea, but I know it works also this way and this will fit me way better" and start a Wicca school like "My name Wicca". Because it's based on Wicca. I mean, that how all the traditions started. And that basically how Christianity started and evolved. So in the past people had the right to think of new schools and traditions but today not?

Mabe I just have way too much Discordian influence ;)

I really embrace it to take a relgion as a rough guideline and do a lot of interpretation. But I'm a strong believer that religion is something very personal and that mass relgion just doesn't make any sense. But a good study of one of the basic religions (any religion really) will give you a good start.
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Post by shadowx »

I really embrace it to take a relgion as a rough guideline and do a lot of interpretation. But I'm a strong believer that religion is something very personal and that mass relgion just doesn't make any sense.
ah precisely... the second you change one little thing about Christianity, wicca etc... it becomes YOUR religion and is no longer christianity/wicca. It isnt wrong but it *is* wrong to say "I am a christian" etc...

As for wicca there is still only one path. there are many paths within paganism, wicca, shamanism, even satanism are all pagan religions or paths, but each is distinct.

There are different ways to celebrate religion, its true, however there are still the things you must and must not do. Christians for example cant work on a sunday, the second they do so, for whatever reasons, they are no longer a christian. Yet there is no rule, as far as i know, concerning prayer or worship within christianity, so while a christian may or may not attend a church they still MUST rest on a sunday, must NOT kill, steal and so on...
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Post by Traumwandlerin »

So what church is the true form of Christianity? I never heard of "I have to rest on Sunday" I only heard of "I should praise the Sunday" and what this means is still up to interpretation. To whom do I listen, who do I ask? The pope is not responsible for the Protestants, as I was. There is no one I could aks. I could ask one local priest and everyone would answer differently. It could mean you shouldn't move at all or it could mean do something what let you relax and don't do things that stresses you out. Could mean just be aware. The bible sais it, but it doesn't contain what it means.

I just don't see anything wrong. But I was never a conservative, nor a hardliner or whatever the right term is (no offence meant, it's just I don't know the right term and haven't found one, hopefully non of this will be too offending). I'm soft, flexible especially to new ones or people with problems. Just do what fits you the best. Who cares what do you say you are. Just say what you think fits you best and don't get mean at people who define it otherwise. You probably don't know, but mostly there is a lot more than one truth ;) Even for definitions.
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Post by shadowx »

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
The fourth commandment ;)

Anyone who does not rest on a sunday is thus going against the 10 holiest sentences ever said by "god", direct from his mouth as it were....
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