Everything Under the Moon

Awww thanks, Vesca.

I just ramble .

My apologies are extended to all posters (Seraphin, particularly, that was a good read) who've given their time to respond to me, but I shan't be contributing to this thread again. To contradict what you've said is clearly considered unacceptable, and I've no wish to foster a prolonged argument with moderators; you just don't win those.

Should anyone wish to continue this discussion, feel free to send me a PM.

Seraphin Murmur wrote: You are either a Christian or a witch. You cannot be both.

Let these people who identify themselves Christian witch choose to live: as a follower of Christ who practice magick.

Your post was beautifully put Seraphin Murmur, it was a pleasure to read. I think this is a topic that will always conjure up very strong opinions. The reason I isolated the above two sentences is because this is how I feel.

I think what may determine a person's opinion on this subject is how one views the meaning of "Witch". To some, Witchcraft is a religion, in which case it would be quite impossible to be both a Witch and a Christian (just my opinion, of course). If, however, one sees Witchcraft as a craft only then one could quite possibly be a Christian who practices magic (as you said above).

We really just need our own new identifying term. We can't call ourselves Christians even though we study the bible, find comfort in Jesus and pray to God. But, we can't identify as witches because we study the bible, find comfort in Jesus, and pray to God. I was using the term Christian Pagan but I suppose I'll stop now. If anyone has any good identifying terms to suggest, I'd like to hear them!

I'm going to duck in, give my 2 cents worth, and then run like Hades!
"Christianity is a beautiful religion, It's a shame nobody practices it anymore." - Gandhi
MY belief, is there has been so much manipulation of the religion that it has lost where it came from.
If Jesus were to come back today, I believe he would be royally honked off in what has been done in his name in the last 1900 years!

E.E. (Duckin' and runnin')

^^ Oh for sure! Which is why I stopped going to church and started looking for new spiritual paths in the first place. But, I had gone through confirmation as a child. I had been baptized and made promise to follow Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit, and whether it was witchcraft or not, it was a major ritual and it definitely meant something. And, now I keep my promise and I keep my faith that Jesus loves me, God protects me and the Holy Spirit gives me wisdom. But, I don't believe every word of the Bible to be true and golden and absolutely must be followed. I just don't. So I allow myself to blend old ways with new ways in my spirituality.

Rosie

RosieMoonflower wrote:We really just need our own new identifying term. We can't call ourselves Christians even though we study the bible, find comfort in Jesus and pray to God. But, we can't identify as witches because we study the bible, find comfort in Jesus, and pray to God. I was using the term Christian Pagan but I suppose I'll stop now. If anyone has any good identifying terms to suggest, I'd like to hear them!

Yes, I agree entirely. What about Christo-Magickians? I think I read that somewhere but cannot remember where.

Let's also not forget that by saying "Christians can't do witchcraft" we are eliminating many traditional hoodoo and rootworker's practices. Which in itself is sort of problematic. Abrahamic witches have existed for a long, long time. Much longer than most modern practices, and just as long as some of the traditional practices. (people forget that Yahweh (as well as El if you believe they are the same God or not) as a God existed before Christianity, and is just as old as many other Gods.

Witchcraft is actually not a term used in the bible. The term most used it m'nachesh which directly translate to snake whisper. Other words for witchcraft existed at the time, however the bible directly uses m'nachesh. Many of us translate this to an enchanter who is a devotee to Satan. Many of the words in the bible are mistranslated, especially when Christianity got absorbed by Rome. (heck, even the names got changed by the Romans. ex: Yeshua to Jesus) On top of that, many aspects of the Old Testament do not apply to modern day Christians due to Yeshua's appearance in the New Testament. I have quite a few articles on witchcraft and Christianity in terms of mixed up translation if anyone wants some

hailmary wrote:Let's also not forget that by saying "Christians can't do witchcraft" we are eliminating many traditional hoodoo and rootworker's practices.
)

Hoodoo, conjure practitioners and rootworkers don't call themselves witches. I think my question would by why do Christians want to call themselves witches - to most Christians it's a nasty word. I understand that some Christians wish to practice magic but I would not class them as witches - they're simply Christians practicing magic. Catholics practice magic when they light candles for someone in their church but they don't call themselves witches.

That is very true Jenny. Not to mention that transubstantiation happens at each mass and the host and holy wine are literally turned into the body and blood of Christ. It's more than a symbol. That's some pretty magical stuff. Pity that the church didn't recognize that people other than priests are capable of magic too. That would be giving too much power away. I might still be a Catholic if I could tolerste the views on women, power, homosexuality, and control. Clearly I still have unresolved issues

Exactly! Candle magic happens all over the world in Christian churches all the time. All sorts of rituals and prayers go on that are way more than symbolic.

And, yes I agree that anyone can practice magic, and I think the church knew that and wants to keep people from knowing it, to keep the control.

What about the term "Christian Mystics"? LOL.

Is that also contradictory? I saw a book in a thrift store today titled "the Christian mystic" but I couldn't bring myself to spend $13 on it..

Rosie

Oh yes, they do exist. Carmelite Catholics are a good example. I think about the way Catholisism is practiced in South America...staunch Catholics, but they do seem more open to the mystical part of the religion.

Traditional Abrahamic witchcraft have existed a long, long time. If you count the Canaanite, you could argue much longer than the Roman Witches. By pretending traditional witchcraft is not "true" witchcraft you are erasing Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Rastafarian, and many other faiths that may have been practicing witchcraft for hundreds of years (or as long as their religion has been around).

I think it is important for us to accept each other for what we are, and not try and redefined witchcraft to make one religion more superior. Witchcraft is just a craft, anyone of any faith can practice it.

I agree wholeheartedly that this is not about making one religion superior to another. Absolutely. Though I am not certain I would call my practice or 'way' simply a craft. I don't think that's what you meant to imply.....I'm actually going to ponder that....it makes witchcraft sound like an addendum to any major religion. Though, I don't think that's what you meant either. I really like your thoughts and posts Hailmary. I know that for many folks their spiritual practice is wholly a thing unto itself. Then again others borrow from other paths.....Hmmmmm....food for thought.