Love Spell Ethics -

[Edwardo]

Hello again. I feel I must ask this question as it's been on my mind for awhile. I posted about a month ago asking about love spells. A lot of nice people replied with various responses. One issue that came up was the ethics involved. My question is as follows...

The replies and subsequent other articles I've read about casting love spells, seem to often mention the three fold rule, and not wanting to interfere with a persons free will. That part is clear.

But has anyone on here actually forgone that assumption and cast a spell anyways? What were the results? Did it work?

People seem so convinced this is a real law of life, and one that must not be crossed. Is that based on experience or simply following the wiccan credo, and thus, not actually having any experience in this area.

[Sobek]

i just have to say, screw the f*cking rules. In magic there are no absolutes. 3 fold is specifically Wiccan guidlines...wicca is a religion all for love and light and harming none and things of that nature. the free will argument is all well and good but you should know that not everyone adheres to such undertakings.

from a logical point, the people who feel those things are wrong, wouldn't've made the rules if there weren't people already going against the pre-conceived ideaologies of morality and ethics...you want to do something then do it, but there are always consequences however small and large. Everything has consequences and no im not talking about 3 fold.

If your wiccan and working spells like this, then odds are your not a very good one but other than that do as you please so long as you can make peace with it!

[Elven555]

I agree with Sobek.

Logically speaking, those laws would have been made for a reason. But if you're not following the wiccan way, then you really have no reason to stick to the laws and expectations.

I've known people that have had manipulative love spells backfire on them and they all say, they wish that they hadn't bothered with it.
Perhaps it's because I believe in the threefold rule and i'm supersticious - but, perhaps it's not.

[Edwardo]

I'm not a wiccan, or any other kind of witch or spell caster for that matter. I'm just a guy whose prepared to do whatever it is, to give me a fighting chance to get the one I love back in my life.

Elven, care to put me in touch with these friends of yours that tried manipulative love spells that backfired on them? By backfired, does that mean it worked, but it worked too well?

I'm prepared to face whatever the consequences are, I just want to know straight up, without and hocus pocus "but you can't do that because it will break this rule..." stuff. Is going to be tough to do since I know nothign about spell casting. Maybe I'll run into someone here he is prepared to throw caution the wind and assist me :

[Elven555]

I've just read your other thread and thought I'd mention a few things.

1. For a lot of people on this board, what you're questioning is their belief system and their religion.
It's kind of like asking a Christian if Jesus was real.
It makes no difference if Jesus was real or not, he's real to the people that worship him.
Similar thing to wicca. Wiccans respect the three fold law and in a way, they worship it. It's not to be dis-respected, broken, trodden on, ect, ect.

It seems that you're not familiar with spellcasting of any kind and you need to understand that before a spell can "work" you need to be on a spiritual level of some kind with another force.
For most people on this board, that would be God, Goddess, deity, moon, sun, spirit guide, angels, etc, etc.
You don't need to follow a religion to cast a spell, you do however have to understand what you're doing.
To do this, I would recommend you do research about the history of wicca and paganism and research the Gods & Goddesses.

2. You can't just ask the Gods & Goddesses to help you, when you've had no communication with them and don't believe in them.
Like anything, you need to build a relationship before you can ask for favours.
I would suggest doing this by meditating.

3. A lot of people believe that by making "bad" spells readily available on the net, they're setting themselves up for bad karma.
Say if somebody were to use your love spell to make a fool out of someone and get a laugh out of it, then the person that wrote the spell and/or made it available to the spellcaster, would get part of the karma involved with it.
Which partly explains why a lot of sites have the threefold warning on them. The other part of that of course, as I've mentioned above, is because it's their belief system and they feel it shouldn't be broken.

[[cherokeewind]]

Ok, I can speak from experience. Many years ago, I was a new person. And still young enough to think hanging out at nightclubs, to dance was a lot of fun. I went a step further and cast love spells a couple times for fun. There is something more important to consider, than the 3-fold law. What kind of person are you bringing into your life? It is really hard to judge a person's character by the way they look, act, dress, and dance in a bar. Putting a spell directly on a person tends to drag you down to their level. It can take you backward in your spiritual progress. Enough said...it is definitely a no, no thing to do.

[Edwardo]

Wow some nice replies there. Thank you Elven and Cherokeewind.

I don't want to invest time and energy into something that will not work. Thus I hope you understand my questions concerning ethics and so on.

I'm not after a bad use of a spell. Rather I desire to be with someone I love very much, and that person loved me back at some point. No situations happened, or bad things occurred to end the relationship. It just ended and I don't know why.

I would be willing to learn and train to cast spells, knowing and having faith that it would work. The three fold rules, Karma and so on, I understand that. I am however prepared to cross that boundary.

As far as having a spell backfire, all I've been able to find out is people saying it will turn the person you cast the spell on, into a stalker, and you in the end may not want them back in your life. When my only thoughts are of this one person, the love we shared and the life we lived and were going to lead, even a crazy stalker is heavenly compared to nothing.

[Firesong555]

...even a crazy stalker is heavenly compared to nothing.

Be careful what you say. >.> I know what it's like to have a crazy stalker, and I'd rather be single again than have to deal with that. THere were no spells involved on my part for that, but crazy stalker girls... Ugh.

As for doing a love spell of any sort, I've really never seen the need for one, and I kinda think it would influence free will if you did one on this other person, but you could possibly do one on yourself that would make you more attractive or something along those lines (though don't quote me on that one, I usually stay away from love spells so I'm not entirely sure how that would work -- it's just a suggestion). But, if you want to try and see what happens, just be careful.

You don't want a crazy stalker. >.<

[[cherokeewind]]

The way some of the old Wiccans used to apply love spells, in a positive sense...is to charge a unique or unusual kind of ring. The idea is to put your thoughts into a spell about the type of person you'd like to meet someday. I think even that would have to be done in the right way, so doesn't just attract people you don't need. It might take a couple years, if done right...just don't find the right person overnight.

[MVTirado]

i just have to say, screw the f*cking rules. In magic there are no absolutes. 3 fold is specifically Wiccan guidlines...wicca is a religion all for love and light and harming none and things of that nature. the free will argument is all well and good but you should know that not everyone adheres to such undertakings.

from a logical point, the people who feel those things are wrong, wouldn't've made the rules if there weren't people already going against the pre-conceived ideaologies of morality and ethics...you want to do something then do it, but there are always consequences however small and large. Everything has consequences and no im not talking about 3 fold.

If your wiccan and working spells like this, then odds are your not a very good one but other than that do as you please so long as you can make peace with it!

Well said. Other "earth based religions" have different opinions regarding spell casting when it involves other people. Considering this, the notion of a "grey magick" seems rather odd to me.

Everyone believes what they believe for whatever reasons they have, and so I agree with what was said above about being at peace with the decision you make. Beyond any decision, however, I think it has everything to do with how one understands spells to work.

Some people in invoking other deities or angels, some believe they work through the dead, some believe that we merely use personal power, and so on. I think that the medium we use is just as important, and tied into how we view the morality of such things. Personally, I do not believe that anything will happen against the will of The Most High. Plain and simple. Like any other prayer, I ask what I ask, and come from a point of my personal power (not the dead, not directly invoking any angels, or other deities), and if it is the will of The Most High then it will be.

In short, spiritual understanding seems to have slightly more to do with it than religion, so to speak, from the way I see it.

However, I don't say this to mean that I believe that we should cast of morality altogether. I do believe that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us. But this isn't something that only needs to be observed in casting, but in every aspect of life. To me, there is little difference in thinking evil of someone in your heart and mind (sending them negative vibes) and actually taking that step to attempt to do something you know would in some way harm them.

[MVTirado]

I'm not a wiccan, or any other kind of witch or spell caster for that matter. I'm just a guy whose prepared to do whatever it is, to give me a fighting chance to get the one I love back in my life.

Elven, care to put me in touch with these friends of yours that tried manipulative love spells that backfired on them? By backfired, does that mean it worked, but it worked too well?

I'm prepared to face whatever the consequences are, I just want to know straight up, without and hocus pocus "but you can't do that because it will break this rule..." stuff. Is going to be tough to do since I know nothign about spell casting. Maybe I'll run into someone here he is prepared to throw caution the wind and assist me :

Honestly, if you know nothing of spell casting, I would suggest that you become familiar with it before you attempt something like this, as it involves another person.

I have had a variety of interesting experiences, and I can't exactly say what caused what. However, after years... one thing I can say for sure is that you need to build up in order to do what you're attempting to do safely and effectively.

The issue here is that there are many different "religions," all which have their opinions regarding what makes what work. Some believe that manifestation of one's will comes directly through the ingredients used in a spell, some think that the responsibility rests solely on whomever you invoke to make whatever it is you want come true, and then there are others of us who believe that it has more to do with the person who is casting a spell than with any materials invoked.

So when you say that you want to do "what works" that all varies according to what you believe.

I guess the main reason that I'm saying that I think you should know fully what you're doing first has something to with what another poster stated. With regard to the 3 folds law and bad outcomes, if you know that you're breaking a law... how then can you conduct such a thing with only positive energy? If you're not familiar with your own energy, and how to control it, then that makes the situation even more difficult and problematic if you're working on or against another individual.

I say find what you really feel and believe about spell casting before you attempt to do it. If you DO decide to try it, I would suggest starting with something neutral. And also, make sure you understand what you believe.

[hedge*]

i just have to say, screw the f*cking rules. In magic there are no absolutes. 3 fold is specifically Wiccan guidlines...wicca is a religion all for love and light and harming none and things of that nature. the free will argument is all well and good but you should know that not everyone adheres to such undertakings.

from a logical point, the people who feel those things are wrong, wouldn't've made the rules if there weren't people already going against the pre-conceived ideaologies of morality and ethics...you want to do something then do it, but there are always consequences however small and large. Everything has consequences and no im not talking about 3 fold.

If your wiccan and working spells like this, then odds are your not a very good one but other than that do as you please so long as you can make peace with it!

Bravo Sob!
Excellent reply and one I agree with wholeheartedly.
There are consequences for every single action we do on a day to day basis...you'd turn yourself into a raving loony if you actually sat there and pondered each action before you carried it out.

While the wiccan ethics, like the christian ethics, are all well and good and very nice, not everyone adheres to such beliefs. You will allways get people who are out for their own and I don't see anything wrong with that from a fundamental point of view.
Live your life how YOU see fit. If you think something's wrong then don't do it.

All spells could be classed as messing with someone's free will.
If I cast a spell to get myself a job, then consequently I could be altering the cause and effect of stopping someone else from getting that same job.
Have I messed with the free will of the person offering the job by manipulating them into giving it to me?
Have I messed with the free will of the other person going for the same job?
You decide.

I'm prepared to face whatever the consequences are

You have to have a basic understanding of what magic means to you and how you wish to incorporate it into your life. You have to set your boundaries and your expectations, otherwise you are going to be sorely dissapointed.
If you expect to cast a spell and it come "true" the next day/week/month then you are setting yourself up for some serious let downs.
All magic is, is tuning yourself into the natural energies that surround you anyway. Become aware of the signs and signals that the universe gives out to you. It's no good casting a spell to get a job if I ignore the job classifieds in the paper.
Similarly you have to accept that higher powers have different things in mind for you

Personally, I do not believe that anything will happen against the will of The Most High.

This is something I beleive in totally and no amount of spell casting will change things directly.

Maybe this is where the true magic lies.

[MVTirado]

Personally, I do not believe that anything will happen against the will of The Most High.

This is something I beleive in totally and no amount of spell casting will change things directly.

Maybe this is where the true magic lies.

I believe it is. But also like you said... we have to do our part as well. Prayer, meditation, affirmations, calling on personal power... whatever it may be, we still have to set forth initiative.

Even for those who choose to call upon the dead, angels, etc, (even though I don't do that personally), I think whatever they cast is still held to the approval of The Most High.

Edwardo's questions and comments are rather interesting to me, because... although they're not uncommon, they just remind me of the importance of people knowing what they're working with and what they're getting into.

I come from a Christian background. And as I'm sure everyone here knows, Christians don't take kindly to divination or spell casting. Honestly, I think the problem is with the mediums and not the acts themselves. And since I believe in spirits and angels, I think it's very important to know what you believe, just as you should with any other religion or practice, before you set off to involve yourself with it.

"Witchcraft" is so incredibly broad. And from my personal understanding, you don't want the wrong entity to answer you request/petition just as you don't want to put the wrong energy into whatever work you're doing.

To me some of it sounds like praying to Jes-s and not knowing who he was, or necessarily believing he existed. But just praying for the results. Even for those who rely solely on personal power, I think it is very important to know and understand what you're dealing with. Even if one is an atheist, for example, other individuals have personal power just the same as the one who is casting. Even in this situation, there is no guarantee that your personal power or will is stronger than that of the person you are working on or against... even if that person does not happen to practice "witchcraft."

[Mycroft]

Ouch...alright. Here's the deal. If she isn't in your life anymore, maybe it's because of a reason. Could be fate, could be whatever you like to call it.

When magic is involved, you have to do things by the book. It's like this. Today you're only walking from school to your house and vice versa and tomorrow you're going to a marathon. You need practice. And love spells are difficult...start low. I am usually the first to throw caution to the wind but hey...it's hard here. Any mishap of the spell and yes, things will go wrong. Very wrong...I haven't done many love spells, but a friend did a wrong one and bad things happened by more than just the love range of things. A friend almost died and she broke her leg.

My advice is don't. If you continuously believe that this is the right thing, then take precautionary measures. Make protection spells before, practice at least a little, gather a feel of how magic works. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Lunawisper Sayles]

Eh...Love spells are touchy and shouldn't be used to directly get a specific person to fall for you.

I learned that the hard way when I tried to cast a spell to find out somebody's fealings for me. (It just failed to work.)

The next love spell I cast was to attract somebody...It didn't matter who as long as they were accepting, funny, cute, nice, somebody willing to stay for a very long time...Yeah, you get the picture.
Eventualy the second one worked, and I'm still dating the man. ^_^
But it was because I never asked for somebody specific, just to attract somebody of that nature who would have an interest in me.


As long as you're not specificly manipulating another person(in fact, probably not manipulating at all.)...It should be okay...And it shouldn't do harm, right?