Science & Magick

[Kei Kawazu]

Science-based links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance
http://electromagnetichealth.org/electr ... -less-emf/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_pho ... and_health
http://cellphonesafety.wordpress.com/20 ... ur-coffee/
http://www.electroherbalism.com/Bioelec ... hogens.htm
http://www.causeof.org/brainwaves.htm
http://www.scienceclarified.com/everyda ... works.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
http://www.scientificexploration.org/jo ... _mason.pdf

The other stuff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_magic
http://asiarecipe.com/srirain.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_(paranormal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OcQOlr6hPQ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairvoyan ... ouching.29

EXPLANATION: Resonance works on the level of all forms of energy it seems, radiation sound(motion) electromagnetism and more and objects of similar frequencies cause the other one to vibrate, like two tuning forks at a similar frequency when one is struck. Everything holds a frequency, including humans, and we are affected by frequencies of the things around us such as electronics, though electronics have a stronger effect than most other objects obviously because of their electromagnetic fields or radiations and such.

Imitative magic(sympathetic magic) is magic used in ancient paganism where, for example, people could try to get it to rain by imitating the sounds of rain and such. I believe this has its effect because it increases the probability of raining by promotign more energy of the environment towards the desired outcome, and because of simple things such as the butterfly effect, this can cause a significant difference.

And humans effect random number generators, which also suggests this is could be the case. As well humans organs each have different frequencies, and int he nerves are electrical impulses, electrical could show how it affects empaths because electronics affect people as well but all people not just empaths, but its stronger with humans than electronics to affect empaths because of resonating at a closer frequency to the human frequencies.

Also feng shui (mentioned in the chi link briefly) is about how objects energies can affect the energy(chi) of a room based on placement and such, which reminds me of magical rituals but feng shui would be along-term thing while rituals would try to affect the subconcious mind and more, and i beleive the subconcious mind affects the aura and synchronicity, as well i think magic and resonance are related to synchronicity. Chaos magicians try to influence the subconcious mind to try to acheive or gain what they will, which leads me to believe mindsets can cause aural change attracting different things to them, though ti coudl also be the resonance of their subconcious thoughts affecting reality, since the brain is electrical and perhaps we can be affected, along with the environment, with subtle enough changes in our brains to cause the influence to our environment.

This means that belief, mindset, and such are strong in determining the outcome of magical and non-magical acts.

As well (though i don't have links for this part though half of it is easy enough to confirm anyways) negative ions occur in thunderstorms(basically electricity) and negative ions are healthy, while positive ions are not. Chi and magic i have read before from different sources, each one was said to be easier to charge during a thunder storm. This made me wonder about another video i saw on chi where this dude could zap people, and was using chi-therapy and they tried to test how much electricity he coudl discharge and it was enough for a small led lightbulb, and he set a newspaper on fire as well. This made me almost positive chi is electrical based, and that magic is interconnected with chi and empathy because of how humans frequencies can affect another, and its related to psychics because psychics can pick up on thoughts, which is possibly the electrical frequency or some such thing they detect from another person. Chi(watch the youtube video) was also used to move objects, just like telekinesis, so itd make sense they are interconnected.

Also i read some of a book on how people exposed to electromagnetic fields or hit by lightning can have psychic abilities afterwards, well there were claims of this at least. As well the video i mentioned (but coudlnt find) about the chi dude using it for therapy and setting fire to a newspaper, he also said something about being able to read objects with chi, so i think perhaps electromagnetic imprints or patterns in the frequency could be read through clairsentience to determine the object's past or other things. (i admit this arguement is perhaps one of the weaker ones here)

So now you can't easily prove any of this wrong, you need to look at this unbiasedly to find the truth and that obviously points towards chi/psychics/magic/empathy being all interrelated and connected, and scientifically plausible.


I posted this in a science forum before an dpeopel were all going on about wikipedia not beign a good source, but wikipedia is a good source because its regulated to make sure theres not bad edits and there are sources for the info provided and in general its good to enlighten people on certain topics, and the same info can be found outside wikipedia so its good for a starting point at least.

[Kei Kawazu]

EVEN MORE ON THIS

1. http://media.noetic.org/uploads/files/G ... _study.pdf
2. http://www.scientificexploration.org/jo ... _mason.pdf
3. http://imig.stanford.edu/Placebo.pdf
4. http://www.livestrong.com/article/43716 ... exercises/
5. http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/brai ... ight-loss/
6. http://www.mindreality.com/chaos-magic- ... -all-power

Ok so 1 is on how a person is influenced from being watched with another image being watched from the watcher at the same time, causes the emotion they tried to bring out with that image to occur in the one being watched. This was a double blind study if i recall.

2 is about how group meditations cause significant random number generator influence, there were more 0s than 1s significantly.

3 is about how hotel workers were told they got enough excersize from their job then their health started improving over the health of the ones who werent told, and they say 'Symbols, beliefs, and expectations can elicit
powerful physiological occurrences, both positive and negative' which i will link to 6 later

4 and 5 are about daydreams being almost as effective as real excersize for at least the length of time they were done.

6 is about chaos magic how they make symbols change beliefs etc to get desired outcomes.

Though this part might be wrong, i assume that the person watching the person through a camera is thinking about the person and focused on them, though it seems obvious that is the case. These links show how belief/mentality/thoughts/etc can ALL change things in reality.

It could have been just a placebo effect, except random number generators are not subject to the placebo effect. It could only affect the person changing their thoughts/beliefs, but then how come a person thinking about another person causes them to change when they are distant and seemingly uninfluencible to each other. These facts point that chaos magic could very well be non-placebo, and that it affects more than just living beings, it can effect outcomes because of the random number generator, and i think it might be related to the 100th monkey effect (google that one yurself!)

[Melindrose]

how about magic is science people forgot

[Starwitch]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to move this up to the witchcraft school forum. I think it's good information for someone studying magic and the paranormal.

[Peregrine]

Thank you for sharing this. It gives me a lot to read, research, and ponder. I'm going to bookmark this thread.

[roseonfire]

http://sacred-texts.com/bos/bos197.htm

[Kei Kawazu]

rose what is that link for?

also thanks for the comments everybody

[roseonfire]

It explains magick through terms of quantum physics.

[Kei Kawazu]

It has a search bar, what should i type into it?

[roseonfire]

Nothing. The article is at the link, sacred-texts is a full site though with tons on many religions.

[Kei Kawazu]

wow thats informative, thanks

[roseonfire]

Welcome.

[Kei Kawazu]

Well i dont mean to be rude or anything but i checked out the quantum physics with a person on another forum and he said some of the things are very misunderstood in that, but it wasnt on a science forum or anything where i asked.
He said "

Thus, the physical universe is fundamentally unified.

Not really. You see, this relies upon either a lie of omission or ignorance concerning how quantum mechanics comes into play with macroscopic scale structures. It all stems from the stupid thought experiment of Schrodinger's that everyone runs with. The cat is not both alive and dead. It is a classical object because any possibly entangled state in which it could be decays off faster than pretty much any physical process we could possibly register as the entangled states die off at a rate exponentially dependent upon the mass.

Quantum mechanical systems can go from one configuration to another instantly, without passing through any states in between.

No. Now, the question is why. At this point, it is blatantly apparent that the author is going to take and abuse the Copenhagen interpretation and so I will now explain what is wrong with it in that language:

The interaction which resulted in collapse to an eigenstate fundamentally altered the basic state [it was presumably a superposition of several eigenstates before interaction and now it is a single eigenstate] and the state has a well defined evolution process [which the author actually describes via the time-dependent Schrodinger equation]. Successive measurements, if I am not allowing other things to happen in the meantime, will give the same result. It will not just spontaneously change with each measurement unless there is an outside action which causes the eigenstate to decay.

Getting back to established scientific theory, normal waking consciousness occurs when the nerve cell firing rate (synaptic switching rate) is high enough to spread out the waves associated with electrons to fill the gaps between nerve cells (synaptic clefts) with waves of probability of similar amplitude.

So, we are saying that neurons are causing electrons to become non-localized. This would require a brain structure to exist that simply doesn't [really, there are not good, space spanning, equipotentials in the brain]. Furthermore, I had thought that neuron transmission was done via ion pumps to create voltage differences, not by quantum tunneling of electrons. So, from what I know of physics and what admittedly little I think I know of biology, this statement is nonsense.

By merely observing a phenomenon (resonating ones brain with it) one can affect the outcome, since the physical mechanisms in your brain are part of the wave matrix described by quantum mechanics.

And now we get to the abuse . This is an abuse of the Copenhagen interpretation and/or the basic principles of quantum mechanics. So, the brain is a macroscopic structure with a fairly sizable weight [and a flies brain is of a truly amazing size for what we are talking about]. So, it cannot exist in a superposition by the principles of quantum mechanics. Therefore, the brain cannot interact with objects in an inherently quantum mechanical way. Thus, "resonating ones brain" with an object [which I am going to take to mean performing some sort of measurement] does not affect the outcome.

Let's go and do the basic double slit experiment. If I have a photon source that emits single photons at regular intervals and allow these photons to pass through a screen with two slits and then strike a photographic plate, I will eventually get the expected interference pattern. Not all that surprising. Now, if I perform a measurement of which slit the photon is going through, I destroy the pattern. The question is [though it is asked surprisingly rarely], why did it disappear?

The reason it disappeared is that my measuring device has two possible states: a photon went through me and a photon did not go through me [If it can be in the superposition of maybe a photon went though me and maybe it didn't, then it is a bad detector and you should start again with a new one]. Why is it like this? Because your measuring device is macroscopic and thus cannot be in a superposition as those die off incredibly quickly. Now, since the photon interacts with this device before reaching the screen, it has to collapse into a state where it either goes through the detector or it does not. It can no longer be a superposition of both as the device cannot exist in such a superposition. Since it is not longer in a superposition, it can no longer interfere with itself and there is no interference pattern.

All of this occurs independent of whether or not you sit there and look at the output of the machine. If such a system were to somehow arise by natural processes on a lifeless rock on the other side of the universe, this would still happen. Conscious observation plays no true role in the process"

though i will note when he said the resonancing of ones brain can't effect the outcome he is speaking solely based on the info in that link, its already been shown in other experiments that meditation and such can affect random number generators or influence distance people, as with the links i have.

[Miss Pixie]

Wow, that's a lot of interesting information. I'll definitely have to look into this in-depth.

On the same topic, here is an absolutely fascinating video about how magic is a science: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAmiOfwT ... ideo_title

[Kei Kawazu]

Do you have a link to the pictures she speaks about? i can only find the one image, she says there are 64 different frames even from different angles where the light could be seen.