Un-baptizing

Discussion for and about Christian witches and pagans. How do you merge your two belief systems? Please be kind to Christian witches. I have come to believe that it is a very valid belief system.
Tomdiepstrap

Un-baptizing

Post by Tomdiepstrap »

Greetings all,

I am a Wiccan, but on my birth certificate is says I'm christian. This is because my home country(Holland, don't live there anymore) has two kinds of schools. Christian schools, where all the Dutch kids go, and non-Christian schools, where only (No racism intended in this section) Africans, Muslims, and all other's go. My parents baptised me when I was a baby. According to the bible, I should be destroyed for no longer being a christian. But somehow, death at the hand of Christianity does not sound very nice. That is a fate I am willing to live with though. However, I don't want the mark of Christianity on my forehead since I am not a Christian. Does anybody know of a way to UN-baptise yourself?
Moon_Stone
Posts: 1117
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Where the Wild Things are
Contact:

Post by Moon_Stone »

Hm, good question, Tomdiepstrap. I'm not entirely sure what my birth certificate says (or if there's any mention of a religion, at all- I'm in the U.S., so ours may not have anything like that on it)... but if it did, I'd want it changed as well. Especially being that if you don't have any sort of living will or last will and testament in place, should you die tomorrow, whatever governmental agency that handled your death/burial would be using your birth certificate as the only means of your stated 'wishes', religiously.

I'm not sure how birth certificates are handled in Holland but in California, the individual county where you were born handles and holds all birth/death records. If there's something similar in Holland, I'd start by contacting that department to ask your question to find out what avenues you'd have to travel down to make such a change happen. (Changing it may invalidate the entire document though, so if that's the case, you'd definitely not want to try doing it that way.) I'm not sure how the Social Security Administration is involved, but they most likely are as well- though I'd start with the county clerk's office. If they're not able to assist you at all, you can always go ahead and have a last will and testament drawn up stating your wishes upon your death (religiously, re. burial and such). That way there's another official document on record contradicting the birth record that states you're christian. That may be the best you could do, unfortunately.

~Bright Blessings~
Ashe
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:30 am

Post by Ashe »

I had a friend with that same issue. What we did is...unorthodox. In christianity there is one god and one way to heaven and all that being jesus and all. Well we came to the conclusion that if a baptist can marry a catholic and get various documents changed then it would be the same for us. So we gave him a formal Wiccaning thus negating the baptism in christian eyes. He went to his old church and talked to his minister and a few other churches minsters and they said that by having a wiccaning that if he ever wanted to return to his christianity that he would need to be baptized again. It worked for him although i dont know if anything really happend because of it.
To conquer others is to have the power to destroy, but to conquer ourselves is to heal the world.
Ashe
[SnowRaven]
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:42 am
Gender: Female
Location: Ohio

Post by [SnowRaven] »

My son was baptized in his grandmother's church at 9 months old as it meant quite a lot to her and he carries her father's name. Means absolutely nothing to me, but I allowed it because I love her. Because I don't believe in Sin, Original Sin and that lot - baptism is hollow and meaningless to me. It does not appear on any formal, legal document. It was an act of love & respect for me to allow it.

During meditation later I thanked the Goddess for the gift she gave me in my son and was answered.
gwenblackbird
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:02 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Clovis, California

Post by gwenblackbird »

Well, if you do believe in either God, Jesus or so one you should still be able to that once you die and if you're not reincarnated that you'll still be able to enter the gates of Heaven, (or wherever it is that you would call it) and dwell there.

I would be able to explain it better in person rather than in typing.
Bryanna

Post by Bryanna »

I've wondered the same thing. I'm in the US, and I don't know if they keep a record of that anywhere. I hope they don't, because I'd rather not go through the trouble of changing it when I turn 18. Hopefully I'll have friends/family/whatever around when I die to make my funeral how I want it.
purplesummer

Post by purplesummer »

Bryanna wrote:I've wondered the same thing. I'm in the US, and I don't know if they keep a record of that anywhere. I hope they don't, because I'd rather not go through the trouble of changing it when I turn 18. Hopefully I'll have friends/family/whatever around when I die to make my funeral how I want it.
I do not think in America they put your religion on your birth certificate. The only record of your religious beliefs would be through your place of worship. Separation of Church (religion. I learned it Church and people get annoyed with that.) and State makes it so the government cannot interfere with the Church. So the government should have no record of it.
kitchenwitch

Re: Un-baptizing

Post by kitchenwitch »

Tomdiepstrap wrote:Greetings all,

I am a Wiccan, but on my birth certificate is says I'm christian. This is because my home country(Holland, don't live there anymore) has two kinds of schools. Christian schools, where all the Dutch kids go, and non-Christian schools, where only (No racism intended in this section) Africans, Muslims, and all other's go. My parents baptised me when I was a baby. According to the bible, I should be destroyed for no longer being a christian. But somehow, death at the hand of Christianity does not sound very nice. That is a fate I am willing to live with though. However, I don't want the mark of Christianity on my forehead since I am not a Christian. Does anybody know of a way to UN-baptise yourself?
Try looking up vital statistics in the blue pages of the phone book, I think. If I am not mistaken, that is where you can get a copy of your certificate, and likely where you will be able to have this information changed. If they won't take off the original faith, then perhaps they can add Wiccan under that, at least it would show this was your choice. Let us know what you find out.
Zytoon

Post by Zytoon »

I see a misconception here. By being baptised you gain Jesus of Nazarus as a forgiving tool. At the end of times god will judge us all for the deeds that we did while we lived. Jesus can earse the negative deeds if you ask him to forgive you. If you turn away from him as you have then he will not testafy on your behalf when you are judged. You are also assigned a gardan angel when you are baptised. If you turn your back on God then that angel is not obligated to potect you until you try to turn back. In short you are not damned for turning your back you are just in the same position you would have been if you where never baptised. Thou shalt have no god before me could hurt you a little bit but hey if you don't believe then what do you care.
Granamyr
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:33 pm

Post by Granamyr »

Zytoon wrote:I see a misconception here. By being baptised you gain Jesus of Nazarus as a forgiving tool. At the end of times god will judge us all for the deeds that we did while we lived. Jesus can earse the negative deeds if you ask him to forgive you. If you turn away from him as you have then he will not testafy on your behalf when you are judged. You are also assigned a gardan angel when you are baptised. If you turn your back on God then that angel is not obligated to potect you until you try to turn back. In short you are not damned for turning your back you are just in the same position you would have been if you where never baptised. Thou shalt have no god before me could hurt you a little bit but hey if you don't believe then what do you care.
Yeah, the point is Zytoon is that they *don't* believe it.

As for the question, it really depends on if you think a religious ceremony altars your person/soul. The Catholic Church teaches that a person cannot ever undo baptism because they say it changes you permanently. They call it an "indelible mark".

From the Catholic Catechism:

An indelible spiritual mark . . .

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.[82] Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

Now, for non-Catholic Christians I don't know what they teach. If you don't believe it altars you in some way then...why worry about un-baptizing yourself? Simply renounce the claim that god and religion had on you in whatever way feels right to you and move on. This is what I said to him when I left:

"If I have never known you, misunderstood your ways or am erring in some way...then I have never known you and I continue to not understand. Should we meet again, know that I am open to information and may we meet in peace."

If you *do* believe in changes you but can be *undone* than consider a ritual bath with salt and cleansing oils. If you believe in changes you permanently, well...maybe you can design a ritual of formal rejection? Bottom line, you belong to you and no mark can altar that.

Hope that helps! :)
theSeeker
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:28 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Florida

Post by theSeeker »

As a once baptized Christian that is now seeking the "Shamanic Way" as a deeper Spiritual Calling... I do not see being baptized nor a Christian as a mark of death upon my head, but rather, as the starting point of find my spiritual way (and) I feel as though we should always give Thanks to that which first opened our soul to finding our place of being... that which we can from, even if that place was once held with in the walls of a Christian church.


P.S.
I personally do not feel as though the modern day church would ever deem a person to death based on their spiritual path... that was the way of the old church and not the way of the new church that is growing in love and acceptance every day true spiritual energy is allowed to breathe.


...blesing
Xal
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:05 pm

Post by Xal »

I'd say don't let Christianity put you off on Jesus. His words have been distorted and misunderstood.
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" - Carl Sagan
calico

Post by calico »

As a protestant Christian, I don't see what the fuss is about. I was taught that being baptized is simply a public acknowledment that you are following Jesus Christ. Most protestant churches don't do child baptisms for that reason- one must be of an age to choose.
It doesn't really matter, does it, what's written on your birth certificate. One is or is not Christian based on if they do or don't follow Jesus, not on baptism.
Jesus didn't condemn people who didn't follow him. The only people he condemned were the religious hypocrits.
.
Lily Cantodea
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:47 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Tennessee, USA

Post by Lily Cantodea »

I honestly don't know about that. I don't think here in the USA we have religions on our birth certificates, since there's the separation of Church (religion) and State, which means that the government can't interfere with one's religion.
nature_in_control
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:39 am
Gender: Male

Post by nature_in_control »

I was baptized but I just say F*ck it. I don't believe in god, the bible or heaven or hell, so I don't worry about it.
~*nature_in_control*~

"I am not here to bring light to a world of darkness, but rather choose to represent darkness in a world blinded by light~"
Post Reply

Return to “Christian Witchcraft”