Exodus 22:18

Discussion for and about Christian witches and pagans. How do you merge your two belief systems? Please be kind to Christian witches. I have come to believe that it is a very valid belief system.
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Peregrine
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Exodus 22:18

Post by Peregrine »

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (King James Version)

This Bible verse in particular is quoted the most often whenever the topic of Witchcraft is mentioned. This is especially true whenever someone wants to raid a board such as this and threaten the participants with death if they do not change their ways. Yet how much have they actually studied the book they claim revere so dearly?

This Bible chapter deals specifically with property rights and social law. When this verse is taken within context with the rest of the chapter, is a warning not to harm your neighbor. If something is done maliciously or heedlessly, there will be restitution to pay. Verse 18 in particular specifies mechashefah or m'khashephah. It is dealing with people who use spells to "cut off" (life and prosperity). Examples could include casting a spell to cause a drought or spread a plague.

Years later, when Hebrew writings were translated into Septugiant, the word was changed to pharmakous or "poisoner." Apparently, the sorts of things that struck terror in the hearts of rural people did not scare city dwellers. However there were some problems with early pharmacists and alchemists, namely witches and wizards, who abused their knowledge and power to deliberately concoct poisons.

In both cases, there is disagreement by some on whether or not both the Hebrew and the Septuagint versions are actually saying to execute them, or if it is saying merely not to "keep" them and to help them sustain their livelihood. According to Jewish Shaman Gershon Winkler, the verse actually says, "You should not sustain a witch." It was intended as protection against humbuggers that used fear and intimidation tactics to drain people of their money, and to tell those who have special powers to use only kind and beneficial magic. Another variation of the same verse says, "From sorcery you should not live," meaning do NOT make a living out of practicing sorcery.

The resources I used for this wee post are as follows:

Biblos.com
Proteus Library article
Jewish Shamanism
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Peregrine
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Post by Peregrine »

A P.S. to my post above:

Even back in the day when I was a Christian, I was never brought up to believe that anybody should be executed for witchcraft. While I was taught not to engage in sorcery, there was no such teaching on executing anyone for practicing it. I was raised in a belief system one would call authoritarian, in that they were very persistent that you quote book, chapter, and verse as to where the Bible says you can or cannot do something. If the Bible did not authorize it, don't do it. By the Bible, specifically, they meant the New Testament. The Old Testament was just that, an old covenant for the ancient Hebrews and none of it applied to us as Christians. We were to abide only by what Jesus and the apostles commanded.

Growing up, I saw the movies and the documentaries on the witch hunts of old and never could understand why they were being killed. In all honesty, I did not understand. It was not until I was in high school and we were reading The Crucible in my American literature class, did the teacher mention this Bible verse of "Suffer not a witch to live." I wondered where this verse existed. I kid you not. I knew of verses forbidding the practice of witchcraft, but not of killing anyone for it.

Then she specified Exodus 22:18. My reaction was one of complete befuddlement. I asked myself in irritation, "They used Exodus? They used a verse in EXODUS?" ("They" meaning the various types of Christians who felt entitled to kill others for witchcraft.)

Just needed to vent that out for some strange reason. :roll:
It's like walking down an empty street, listening to your own footsteps. But all you have to do is knock on any door and say, "If you'll let me in, I'll live the way you want me to live. And I'll think the way you want me to think." And all the blinds will go up, and all the doors will open, and you'll never feel lonely. Ever again.

~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
Traumwandlerin
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Post by Traumwandlerin »

I'm not really a Christian. Is there something wrong with the Exodus?
shadowx
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Post by shadowx »

But since when have the two main religions (Islam and Christianity) ever cared what their holy books said? Or indeed when have they ever cared for the welfare of the nonbelievers?

Go to iran and scream that you love jesus and you will go missing, probably never seen again.

Go back a few hundred years and scream you love allah in rome. Your life will be cut short.

Forward to the present day and we have christians banging on about being gay. Yet the bible also says to the effect of "thou shall not wear clothes of mixed fibre" and yet christians forget this all too easily.

Christianity and Islam are evil religions. They much to answer for and i would glady execute the leaders of both throughout the ages without hesitation nor regret. It makes me as bad as them, that's true, but the destruction of both Islam and Christianity would do the world much good, allowing the former followers to follow their own path of tolerance rather than following the lies spread by leaders of both religions and passed down to officials who then fiddle children and lie some more.

Anyhoo... what is said in the bible is of little consequence. Modern christianity is a shambles and is bloodied. The words of the bible are ignored and the leaders make their own hypocritical rules and statements. They take only what they wish from the bible and ignore the bits they dislike.
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Peregrine
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Post by Peregrine »

Yes, shadowx, but it does not keep fools like me from continually trying to pound logic into their noggins whenever I can. It is my poor attempt at trying to give ammunition to followers that feel vulnerable to some of the twisted logic of the bully leaders. :)
It's like walking down an empty street, listening to your own footsteps. But all you have to do is knock on any door and say, "If you'll let me in, I'll live the way you want me to live. And I'll think the way you want me to think." And all the blinds will go up, and all the doors will open, and you'll never feel lonely. Ever again.

~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
shadowx
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Post by shadowx »

Good luck with that! It could take some considerable time and effort on your part!

At the end of the day the bible was written by men and hypocritical hateful men at that!

The koran is no different. They say it is the word of Allah but it isnt, it is the words of men who want control and to cause fear in those they dislike.
TheBlackDahlia

Post by TheBlackDahlia »

I'm a bit late to the party, forgive me. I had to thank you, though, Peregrine, it was a very interesting read and I appreciate it quite a bit.

I won't disagree that Christianity in it's most popular form is bloodied and a sad excuse for what it should be in it's design.

That being said, it is.. a frustrating, tiresome thing that if you classify yourself as a Christian--by definition, someone who believes in Jesus Christ--you are instantly classified with every crusader, every inquisitor and other cruel person in history. My point is, it's nice to see a post that isn't telling me how cruel and terrible I am. <3 So thank you.
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Re: Exodus 22:18

Post by ImperfectAngel »

[quote="Peregrine"]"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (King James Version)

quote]


That's one verse that erks me....you are correct in that it has nothing to do with a witch and everything to do with control and money....
LostAngel79

Re: Exodus 22:18

Post by LostAngel79 »

I must say, your post was thought-provoking and really made me think about my own upbringing in a Christian household. I didn't recall Exodus 22:18 until now, but I'm sure if mom knew where my true beliefs lie it would spew from her lips! :? That said, I agree with you that the Old Testament is simply an historical basis for the New Testament for Christian believers. It must be taken in context. And it must also be understood that SO MUCH is lost in translation. It's like playing the game of telephone (only with papyrus, stone tablets, and hundreds and hundreds of years). HA!

I've never been one to take something at face value. I search for my own understanding from many sources. Needless to say, my process has caused many a rumble with the fam since anything outside of Christianity is pure evil and mom won't even listen because she "knows her faith" and "won't be swayed," to which I replied, "then you should have no problem listening to what I've learned since you're so strong in your faith and open-minded." That went over like a fart in church.
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