The way that I explain the Three-Fold Rule to my own students is to show them that all of our actions have consequences. Some of those consequences are intended, some are not. But just because we didn't mean for something to happen as a result of our actions doesn't make us any less responsible for the outcome.
I also explain to them that our actions and the consequences of our actions effect us physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
Say you are always angry and lashing out at people...
It's a medical fact that people who are full of anger are far more apt to suffer heart attacks and strokes. They are also more prone to ulcers and other gastric problems. So your actions can and do come back to effect you physically.
And if you're always angry and lashing out, you probably don't have very many friends. This can lead to depression..thus effecting you emotionally.
Finally, if you are always behaving in a hateful manner you are also creating a separation between yourself and the Divine. So it effects you spiritually.
Personally I find this way of looking at the 3-Fold Return as making much more sense than other ways of explaining it.
-Lark-
Who doesnt believe in Threefold?
I have known some people who give a very literal interpretation to this threefold rule, but I like the metaphorical interpretations that others have shared here.
In my own personal experience, it is most bizarre but in a good kind of way. If the person is kind and well-intentioned but misguided when they hurt me, it is almost instantly just a small issue that crosses them, something that they had said or done to hurt me and they wind up saying, "Now I understand what you meant," "So that is how you felt" or something else of that ilk. It is as though they are merely being guided, but not punished. There have been times when the same went with me if and when I was able to see the complete picture clearly.
If the person truly messed up with me, instigating something outright hateful, it takes a while. Just when I begin to feel cynical, thinking that they got away with whatever it is they did, I either witness first-hand some heavy repurcussions or hear about them through trustworthy sources. When it does come back to haunt them, however, I must say it is almost like it happens to them three hundred fold, not just a mere threefold.
I used to hang out at BeliefNet a lot a few years ago, and even the atheists argued that you bear consequences of rotten things you do to other people. While they do not believe that you will endure the wrath of God, or a bad karmic force, they do argue you will deal with the wrath of angry mobs or an angry neighbor with an attorney if you do them wrong.
In my own personal experience, it is most bizarre but in a good kind of way. If the person is kind and well-intentioned but misguided when they hurt me, it is almost instantly just a small issue that crosses them, something that they had said or done to hurt me and they wind up saying, "Now I understand what you meant," "So that is how you felt" or something else of that ilk. It is as though they are merely being guided, but not punished. There have been times when the same went with me if and when I was able to see the complete picture clearly.
If the person truly messed up with me, instigating something outright hateful, it takes a while. Just when I begin to feel cynical, thinking that they got away with whatever it is they did, I either witness first-hand some heavy repurcussions or hear about them through trustworthy sources. When it does come back to haunt them, however, I must say it is almost like it happens to them three hundred fold, not just a mere threefold.
I used to hang out at BeliefNet a lot a few years ago, and even the atheists argued that you bear consequences of rotten things you do to other people. While they do not believe that you will endure the wrath of God, or a bad karmic force, they do argue you will deal with the wrath of angry mobs or an angry neighbor with an attorney if you do them wrong.
It's like walking down an empty street, listening to your own footsteps. But all you have to do is knock on any door and say, "If you'll let me in, I'll live the way you want me to live. And I'll think the way you want me to think." And all the blinds will go up, and all the doors will open, and you'll never feel lonely. Ever again.
~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
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Semjaza
I don't believe in the Threefold Law. I always saw it as a 'be good, or the universe will punish you' clause, kind of like a Wiccan version of the Christians' Heaven or Hell. I also don't believe in karma in the sense that New-Agers commonly use it, that of a universal accounting system.
I do believe in cause and effect, that all of our actions have consequences for good or ill, but just because actions (or a lack thereof) have consequences, not because we are being punished or rewarded by a judging God/universe/Goddess.
But I guess I don't really apply for this question, as I'm not Wiccan, just a hedge witch (haegtessa).
Cheers,
Semjaza
FFFF
I do believe in cause and effect, that all of our actions have consequences for good or ill, but just because actions (or a lack thereof) have consequences, not because we are being punished or rewarded by a judging God/universe/Goddess.
But I guess I don't really apply for this question, as I'm not Wiccan, just a hedge witch (haegtessa).
Cheers,
Semjaza
FFFF
I am not Wiccan and I don't accept the literal magnification of threefold return, many times I want my actions to have consequences, or I would not act. I believe in cause and effect and am careful to think through what this will mean to me and others before I do anything. Karma is a concept I have a problem with, I don't believe a child can be born carrying previous life 'sins' or ancestral 'debt' of sin. I believe in reincarnation, but as a means of learning, not as punishment or to work off a karmic debt. I have encountered those who believe that victims of rape or violence are fated to this, as it's their karma bouncing back on them. I cannnot accept this, I believe in evil and I believe it's human not divine.
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[Hearthwitch]
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:27 pm
I do love these kinds of questions because they generate so many different replies. I love how they make me think!
First of all, I'm not Wiccan, so the Threefold doesn't really apply to me. That said, I do believe in the basic principles it's trying to convey- our actions have consequences and we're responsible for them. That our deeds will come back to us magnified? Well, physics does have something to say about that but sometimes magick can trigger an avalanche if the potential is there.
Hearthwitch.
First of all, I'm not Wiccan, so the Threefold doesn't really apply to me. That said, I do believe in the basic principles it's trying to convey- our actions have consequences and we're responsible for them. That our deeds will come back to us magnified? Well, physics does have something to say about that but sometimes magick can trigger an avalanche if the potential is there.
Hearthwitch.
How so, Sobek? Is that like saying the Wiccan belief supercedes all others because it is correct?Can you prove that? Universal, well not for me, it's not. A belief only has consequences for it's believers. The Rede and Threefold law are beliefs within a system of belief, they do not apply to me. I do not believe in them, how could they affect me?
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Ariawyn
A variety of ideas suddenly popped into my head when I read this post. I always believed in the Threefold, for it even happens in real life. When we do something that we know is wrong, such as lying to someone important to us, the lie might not effect them in a negative way (to a certain point). But then we have to live with a guilt for the rest of our lives. So while they may not be harmed by it, we suffer knowing we lied.
I think things happen for a reason. If we do something wrong then we have to face the consequences. Maybe not then but later.
But if there was no Threefold law, then wouldn't we be able to do all what we wish without worrying what will happen in consequence? That means we can put a curse on someone without even a second thought that something worse might come out of it that we didn't predict. The Threefold might not have to do with just magick but everyday life.
We can kill someone. That person had their lives taken away, they are gone but you are still there to witness how even though you wanted to just destroy one life you have affected everyone's lives who was important to that person. One life was gone, but in responce you have hurt dozens of other people.
Also, maybe it's just a way to put a cautiousness into people. Will is a very powerful thing, which enables one to use magic/inner strength. If someone didn't try to put cautiousness into other people then the whole world would be chaotic. No one would believe in consequence.
To me, I think it's enough that I know if a spell has bad intentions I shouldn't do it. Even though I would really want to, even if a decent amount of good will come out of it, if I'm performing the spell with negative intentions then I shouldn't do it. I have no idea how my negative energy and the Threefold law might interwine and distort what I really wanted.
I think the Threefold concerns magic and everyday life. But maybe if you believe there is no consequence none will come out of it. Belief is a strong ally. But maybe because you don't want to believe you don't see the consequence?
~Skye
I think things happen for a reason. If we do something wrong then we have to face the consequences. Maybe not then but later.
But if there was no Threefold law, then wouldn't we be able to do all what we wish without worrying what will happen in consequence? That means we can put a curse on someone without even a second thought that something worse might come out of it that we didn't predict. The Threefold might not have to do with just magick but everyday life.
We can kill someone. That person had their lives taken away, they are gone but you are still there to witness how even though you wanted to just destroy one life you have affected everyone's lives who was important to that person. One life was gone, but in responce you have hurt dozens of other people.
Also, maybe it's just a way to put a cautiousness into people. Will is a very powerful thing, which enables one to use magic/inner strength. If someone didn't try to put cautiousness into other people then the whole world would be chaotic. No one would believe in consequence.
To me, I think it's enough that I know if a spell has bad intentions I shouldn't do it. Even though I would really want to, even if a decent amount of good will come out of it, if I'm performing the spell with negative intentions then I shouldn't do it. I have no idea how my negative energy and the Threefold law might interwine and distort what I really wanted.
I think the Threefold concerns magic and everyday life. But maybe if you believe there is no consequence none will come out of it. Belief is a strong ally. But maybe because you don't want to believe you don't see the consequence?
~Skye
You're assuming everyone has a conscience, some people don't.Ariawyn wrote:When we do something that we know is wrong, such as lying to someone important to us, the lie might not effect them in a negative way (to a certain point). But then we have to live with a guilt for the rest of our lives. So while they may not be harmed by it, we suffer knowing we lied.
If I'm careless around a hot burner and accidentally put my hand on it, I'll get a severe burn and suffer pain, but I wasn't up to any evil.Ariawyn wrote:I think things happen for a reason. If we do something wrong then we have to face the consequences. Maybe not then but later.
But if there was no Threefold law, then wouldn't we be able to do all what we wish without worrying what will happen in consequence?
There are children who are born into poor families and spend their short miserable lives disease-ridden and on the verge of starvation; I guess they are being punished for past lives? Does this mean that whenever you see someone suffering you should say to yourself "good, if they are suffering it means that they are reaping the punishment of the threefold law and must have done something bad."
Better yet, if I take to the streets of some poor lawless village in the middle of nowhere with a baseball bat, will I be unable to hit anyone who doesn't "have it coming" ?
I believe in consequences such as getting burned if you touch fire. However, is it difficult to believe that it's possible to put a curse on someone without receiving some kind of karmic retribution? Is a world where bad people can do whatever they wish without the fear of some mysterious force policing them too scary? What things would you be tempted to do if you were absolutely sure that you'd not receive a single negative consequence?Ariawyn wrote:That means we can put a curse on someone without even a second thought that something worse might come out of it that we didn't predict.
This might make you feel bad, but what about someone who takes pleasure in harming people? Wouldn't this just increase the pleasure?Ariawyn wrote:The Threefold might not have to do with just magick but everyday life.
We can kill someone. That person had their lives taken away, they are gone but you are still there to witness how even though you wanted to just destroy one life you have affected everyone's lives who was important to that person. One life was gone, but in responce you have hurt dozens of other people.
I definitely agree with you, it's important to be cautious when working with any powerful tool. I also applaud you for your kind nature, most sincerely. However, I honestly believe that it's up to an individual to figure out what they truly believe they should do, or what they should not do. I think that the belief in some kind of cosmic justice machine only hinders one from figuring that out. How much of what an individual believes is guided by a fear of automatic retribution?Ariawyn wrote:Also, maybe it's just a way to put a cautiousness into people. Will is a very powerful thing, which enables one to use magic/inner strength. If someone didn't try to put cautiousness into other people then the whole world would be chaotic. No one would believe in consequence.
To me, I think it's enough that I know if a spell has bad intentions I shouldn't do it. Even though I would really want to, even if a decent amount of good will come out of it, if I'm performing the spell with negative intentions then I shouldn't do it. I have no idea how my negative energy and the Threefold law might interwine and distort what I really wanted.
That's a tough one, you don't see what you don't see.Ariawyn wrote:I think the Threefold concerns magic and everyday life. But maybe if you believe there is no consequence none will come out of it. Belief is a strong ally. But maybe because you don't want to believe you don't see the consequence?
cheers,
T. Guy.