Astral Projection?

[hedge*]

You know, I had a little "visitation" the other night, haven't a clue who it was though, but they soon scarpered out of there.
Remebering to sheild yourself is a good practice to get into on a daily basis anyway. We take all sorts of precautions to protect ourselves in the physical world, the same should be done for the astral world.


hedge

[JBRaven]

When I was in Russia, I didn't have real nice friends. The coven that I was in were what people call "Bad witches". At the time I didn't know, I was young and naive. I was from two American Parents so I was not very popular and plus I was stupid. Now I have found some real friends who study the craft and if crazy stuff happens to me they are there to help.

You are right I don't have a very strong connection to my body if I am not active I drift in and out of A.P. I don't know for sure why but I must use this "gift" that I was given.

We must remember that it is human nature to destory. As people we must learn to contorl our need to devour all that is good.

[being-singular-plural]

I have to disagree with your last statement JB,

Creation and destruction are thoroughly interwoven and cannot be Polarized in the way that you are suggesting. I am always weary when someone reduces a being to their "nature." Nature is something that we know nothing about; it is word we created, perhaps that is all. And, every body is capable of creating their own "nature." But, obviously there are certain limitations to one's being, but I would not call that nature. Human beings are neither "good" nor "evil,"neither "natural" nor "cultural." Binarisms like this no longer hold sway in contemporary thought. We are, to use a 17th Century British philosopher's expression, "something I know not what" (John Locke). The human being is something that is to be created--a work in progress. How are you going to create your nature? Please don't think I am being hard on you. I only want to problematize that last statement, as that is what I am trained to do!! Of course you can believe in "nature" all you like, and perhaps some people are "naturally" pre-disposed to evil. I just know that I am not!

Blessings Jay,

bsp

[JBRaven]

You are right nature was the wrong word. A better way of putting it maybe: destroying somthing beautiful is a human compulsion. ( human being a collective)

( Please Rember English is not my first tounge thus at times I don't always get my point across. I doubt anyone relizes that when I type I am constantly in the dictionary trying to figure out what words mean.)

[being-singular-plural]

Dear JB,

Krassevie!! (I think). Anyways, you know that you do not have to say sorry to us! You are always forgiven even before you transgress!! Scold me for this if you want but I think it's: ja lyoblyoo vas! I only know a few Russian terms and only transliterated as you have at least 4 more letters in your alphabet. However, I think I may be getting this confused with Polish(?)

Does that make any sense to you?

Dobry dzien! Dosveydania. . .

bsp

[Starwitch]

Maybe my definition of "nature" is different than yours, but I think that human beings have an inborn nature that we, as spirits, must overcome. If we did not have a spirit, our human bodies would be completely ruled by emotions and desires. It's the people who give into their human nature (or whatever word you might use to describe it) who end up in prison for murder, rape, etc. They let their human emotions and feelings override what their spiritual self tells them is right or wrong. If everyone in the world listened to their higher self and did what it told them to, we would have peace in this world and no crime. Unfortunately, too many people are disconnected from their spiritual self and they do whatever they "feel" like doing, which is usually what their body, brain, physical self wants to do. I do believe that the body and the spirit are two seperate beings who are working together. Some bodies take over completely and block out the spiritual self. These are the people who end up doing bad stuff. How else could you commit heinous crimes if you had a soul that you were in touch with? I don't think you could in most cases. Of course, some people have temporary evil problems and then there are serial killers and rapists. I think those people are permanently disconnected from their spirit. Not to say they don't have one - I do think they have one. I just don't think it is able to communicate with their brain.

I guess my definition of "human nature" is that which we are without our spirit to guide us. I don't think it would be a pretty sight to see - humans without souls. Luckily, we do have souls and that is why we are able to be civilized the way we are.

[being-singular-plural]

Dear ,

I agree with you for the most part . Many people focus on their ego-desires rather than sharing the light that was given them. However, is it not then "natural" for us to born as body-and-soul? Perhaps the enlightened ones are the ones who are "natural" and the ones who turn away from it are more inhuman "unnatural." I think everyone has the innate capacity to share the light that is shared with them, but through either ignorance or soical pressure etc. they become focused as an individual. This term is also a problem. An individual is one who cannot be divided: thus they are not body-and-soul and are rather more interested in bodily gratifications. Balance is key to us who are perpetually divided! "I" am not an in-dividual--"I" am always a self and other than myself. Basically, , we are saying the same thing from different approaches. I am glad that you haven't turned off your "natural" light! Blessings, and thanks for an interesting discussion! Who says philosophy and witchcraft can't intermingle?

Stay divided,
bsp

[Orion]

I am on the side of human/soul symbiosis. The soul is our inner light, so to speak. Our soul uses the human body to learn new experiences to 'perfect' itself and become more apart of the universe itself. Where the human side is elevated for its lifetime to a higher way of life. Our soul and body together are the individual we are. At death of the human, the patterns it had are added to the soul. Hopefully that may some sense of what I mean, lol.

Of course philosophy and witchcraft can intermingle. The only seperations are the ones we created

Namaste!

[being-singular-plural]

Cool stuff Orion,

Language is often a very slippery thing. Soul, to the ancient Greeks was anima, as in amination, and or animal! (this problematizes the nature/spirit dichotomy). However, I think that everything has a light of some kind, including rocks and other kinds of "inanimate" matter. Levinas (a 20th century French thinker) says "light makes void." So even the dark is a product of the light. These twists and turns of thought can be dizzying and uncomfortable at times, but at other times it can give you a killer buzz--without any intake other than words!!

Love the dizzy heights,

bsp

[Starwitch]

Wow, you guys (especially Chris) are nearly above my level of understanding (which is, of course, very rare, lol.) You know Chris, when you said "ego", I thought maybe that was a better word for what I was using "nature" for.

At any rate, I do love talking about spiritual matters. It's always interesting and I get to hear other points of view that can potentially expand my own views. I'm glad you all are members here.

[Orion]

Hehe, yeah I'm just now figuring out I'm climbing some sort of ladder of understanding. So I got plenty of expandin' to be a' doin'
Mostly cause of people like yall that are so very deep. I'm just getting used to the water, it's a little cold to skinny dip in at first... maybe I need a snorkel

Wasn't the Roman religion, before it sponged in the Greek culture, worship of the souls of everything? Respect for each rock, tree, bird, and person type of belief? I do enjoy ancient religions, the law of enthropy says things become more disorderly over time. So some of the early people had a clean slate when they began to believe and learn.

Namaste!

[being-singular-plural]

Yes, the old ways are very neat to study. However, it is the other ways around. It is the Greek deities that seeped into the Roman. Aprodite becomes Venus; Zues becomes Jupiter etc...Surely the Romans did not respect "soul" in all things. It is even bloodier than American history!

As for an old way of respecting all of Life, look into Jainism [pronounced JINE-ISM]. It is almost paralyzing to be a Jain. They practice harmlessness to the most extreme possible limit. They cannot walk a path without special brooms that sweep their way in case a small unseen being gets hurt. Cetainly no meat and they pray to the carrots and other vegetables they eat. THere are still 2 million Jains in the world today (mainly in Africa). I have a feeling that htey may be "onto" something: taking only what is needed (as a bare minimum) and giving back MORE than they take. If you come across it in a textbook or something, I think you will find that there are some very wise old ways.
Orion, I am not sure about entropy and de-evolution of the human spirit--try Hegel's "Phenomenology of Spirit" which is the opposite approach: Spirit keeps repeating the dialectic until it reaches an absolute state. Only read this if you have LOTS of time as it is 800 pages!

On a side note, I read a text called "The True History of Witchcraft" which says that Wicca is not old at all. THere are no sources that date it before 1950!!! It could very well be a systematic creation of Aleister Crowley and Gardner (who wrote Witchcraft Today, that is the foundational text of Wicca). I am being polemical here (controversial) as it looks like many Wiccans do not know that they are falling into a dream of a couple of power(ful) and sex hungry men. Well, those of you who practice Wicca by the textbook, tell me what you think about this? Perhaps Wicca is nothing more than a dream of the 1950's? When do you think "Wicca" started?

Seeking the "truth,"

bsp

[Starwitch]

It's true that Wicca was started in the 1950's. We have discussed that here before. I really don't think most new Wiccans are aware of the history of Wicca. Gerald Gardner apparently took some old ideas and added some of his new ideas and called it Wicca. I haven't heard the "sex-hungry" part yet, but I would certainly like to hear more about it if you have some info. Wicca has many rules and laws that most people calling themselves Wiccan have no idea exist and they do not usually follow these rules, or if they know about them they call them "outdated" and say that they don't apply to modern Wicca. For anyone who thinks that "Harm none, do what ye will" and "The Rule of Three" is all you need to know about Wicca, I suggest you read these 161 Wiccan Laws I have linked to here:
http://www.everythingunderthemoon.net/wiccan-laws.htm

There are a few disturbing ones, including this:

4. As a man loveth a woman by mastering her,
5. So should the Wicca love the gods by being mastered by them.

18.And the greatest virtue of a High Priestess be that she recognize that youth is necessary to the representative of the Goddess.
19.So she will gracefully retire in favour of a younger woman should the Coven so decide in council.

They were apparently not numbered in the original version. As I read on one website that posted them, "Someone must have missed their ten commandments." lol

If you want to know more about where these laws originated from, you can visit this page: http://wicca.timerift.net/laws/old_laws.html

This page also has good info about the laws, including a book where they found them:
http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/300

What happens when you bring this to the attention of Wiccans is that they then tell you that they are "solitary Wiccans" or "eclectic Wiccan" or something like that, meaning they take what they want from Wicca and leave what they don't want (or don't know exists.) Then, I wonder, why call themselves "Wiccan" at all? Why not just be a witch? Of course, we are free to call ourselves whatever we want and follow whatever beliefs we choose (in most civilized countries.) But I do feel like many people need some sort of structured religion. They leave Christianity, but they still feel like they need rules and laws to live by and Wicca offers that to them. I think they are just in a different place than some of us are, spiritually speaking.

As Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." People want it and need it and don't know what to do without it.

[Orion]

I knew the Roman gods had Greek sources, but I cant remember if it was just a small group or such that had that soul of everything belief there. Though Rome has quite a colorful history, admittedly red the most potent.

Kind of funny to see something with less than six decaded to be 'outdated.' But technologically we've accomplished more in the last fifty then in hundreds before that, at least according to most historians.

I see a lot of aspects of Wicca and Christianity that tend to seem very similiar at times. But I my studies aren't very deep yet. I'd almost take a theology class, but even at the ju-college I'm attending it's several new or old testatment surveys and one world religions class. High school just had Bible studies. I guess I got to find some more complete idiot's books (Yoga one is great, lol)

[Starwitch]

I agree that Wicca and Christianity seem to have a few similarities. I think it's the punishment aspect - The Three-fold Law and Hell, plus they each have a Golden Rule. I'm sure this is why Wicca appeals to so many new witches that just left Christianity (or are doing both.)