Can you punish someone without using black magic?

[Greek_Male_Witch]

Hi, I'm not talking about punishing people all around you, but lets say that there's a person who had done harm to you, not physical, maybe emotional harm, and you want to teach them a lesson, without risking Karma biting your...behind...is there any spell for that? If yes can you share it with me? Thanks.

[SilverWort]

Karma is going to hit he/she anyway, unless he/she knows some techniques to escape karma. I don't master these techniques but it's possible to apply them.

[blue_moon]

I always pray for karma to get back to them - and do protective magick for myself.

[Becks]

I personally believe that anytime you take on the mantle of the one deciding "who gets what" you are swimming in the river of Karma. I'm not telling you to swim or not to swim, but just know you're swimming (not floating over it in a boat) and that means getting wet.

[Greek_Male_Witch]

So it's a no, huh?

[GodsLovingLight]

From what I've experienced, there is no positive way to punish someone or a group of people. Taking on the role of judge jury and executioner isn't meant for one person to decide someone else's fate. Do the things in your life to lift yourself up. It will get you out of the pain faster and bring you to a better place.

[Becks]

I don't speak a lot about this, and I'm not going to judge. There are people who make descisions to act terribly towards others. I will just say that while I have had to deal with some awful and nasty things; I personally have made the descision to ground their awful thoughts and actions into the earth and recieve help that way. I have resisted the urge to be the hand of Justice myself. Having said that, it's possible that I have not been in a situation where I felt that is what had to happen....and I'm so thankful for that. If somebody was genuinely after a loved one energetically? I'm not sure what I'd do, and I don't even want to speculate. I'm thankful there has always been another way for me to handle things.

I just think you should know that when you take the reins and make yourself the instrument of Justice-you tie yourself to the situation and become part of it.

In the end, do what you need to do, but I say at least be aware of what it is you do, and go in with both eyes open. Don't act out of emotion or hurt. Weigh your options.

[YanaKhan]

I'm going to agree with everyone else here.
I know how tempting it is to make someone pay for what they've done to you. I really, really do. And I get that if they don't get what they deserve, you feel like you just want to make them suffer.
But, punishment is meant to teach and change and unfortunately the only person you can change is you.
I know exactly how that sounds and that it's not fair and no, there isn't any positive way to teach anybody a lesson.
I like to think when people do me wrong, that this is a karmic lesson I was meant to learn (this is after the anger part, of course).

[Greek_Male_Witch]

Most of the times what you people said, stop me from acting, now I asked, and you confirmed my thoughts, so I will have to meditate and ground myself probably. Thanks for your thoughts guys (and girls)!

[SilverWort]

Very interesting answers.

I personally believe that anytime you take on the mantle of the one deciding "who gets what" you are swimming in the river of Karma. I'm not telling you to swim or not to swim, but just know you're swimming (not floating over it in a boat) and that means getting wet.

Like this definition.

There are people who make descisions to act terribly towards others. I will just say that while I have had to deal with some awful and nasty things; I personally have made the descision to ground their awful thoughts and actions into the earth and recieve help that way.

When you achieve some level of magic control you really can change things, your actions has causal effects, so they are in Karma "spiral". Most times is enough with some control and dissipate methods, like your ground.

I have resisted the urge to be the hand of Justice myself. Having said that, it's possible that I have not been in a situation where I felt that is what had to happen....and I'm so thankful for that. If somebody was genuinely after a loved one energetically? I'm not sure what I'd do, and I don't even want to speculate. I'm thankful there has always been another way for me to handle things.

But sometimes is not enough. I'm not talking about daily life and common people. I have a different world view, but agree with you, better do nothing if you don't know what to do.

I know how tempting it is to make someone pay for what they've done to you. I really, really do. And I get that if they don't get what they deserve, you feel like you just want to make them suffer.
But, punishment is meant to teach and change and unfortunately the only person you can change is you.
I know exactly how that sounds and that it's not fair and no, there isn't any positive way to teach anybody a lesson.
I like to think when people do me wrong, that this is a karmic lesson I was meant to learn (this is after the anger part, of course).

I have different concept for Karma, but there is no reason to make suffer somebody cause somebody hurts you, Karma will handle it. But some people can act out of Karma, with no-causal actions. Often are very powerful people, with high knowledge, can be located in historical chronicles and sacred texts.

Most of the times what you people said, stop me from acting, now I asked, and you confirmed my thoughts, so I will have to meditate and ground myself probably. Thanks for your thoughts guys (and girls)!

Good idea.

[Xiao Rong]

[This post was written in response to a member who asked if it was morally acceptable to use black magic as a way to ensure justice, instead of waiting for karma. They have since asked their post be removed, so I have rewritten parts of the post to be more general.]

It is true that karma (or rather, the Westernized version of karma that really means the Law of Return -- "you reap what you sow") encourages us to maintain the status quo, rather than change it.

I guess my question is, what does justice mean? Some say that it means "an eye for an eye" -- having the power to hurt those who hurt you. To me, this raises a lot of questions. Does this mean that you should have the right (or even the obligation) to punish personally every person who wrongs you? What about lethal force? Most contemporary societies have settled on using a justice system, so that individual citizens do not mete out punishment upon one another, but leave it up to an objective third party who determines wrongdoing and exacts the appropriate punishment (at least in theory, anyways -- of course governments are not always perfectly fair and do perpetrate injustice themselves).

At its core, justice is about fairness, and fairness can mean a lot of things, not merely trading violence for violence. There are also discussions about economic justice and social justice, for instance, about ensuring that people have an equal opportunity to fully participate in society and achieve their maximum human potential. In terms of crime, justice can also mean people making reparations in other ways -- a thief who has to pay back what they stole and then some. There is a lot of interesting (if controversial) work being done on restorative justice -- for instance, rehabilitating rapists so they understand what they did was wrong and prevent future violence.

Here's how karma really plays in (in my humble opinion). Karma means "action-seed-consequence." According to the original, Eastern definitions, it does not mean that life is fair and some cosmic force makes sure that all bad people are punished and only good things happen to good people. Obviously life is unfair and sh*t happens, and karma does not deny that. If you act virtuously, you are not guaranteed to receive buckets of money, but you are guaranteed a virtuous heart. Similarly, if you sow violence, you do not receive justice -- you reap a violent heart. Karma asks you to consider, is that the kind of person you want to be?

If you are considering using black magic for justice or revenge, you probably have a lot of anger going on. I don't consider anger to be inherently bad (Goddess knows I have a lot of anger too), but it is a lot of power that needs a good outlet or it becomes destructive. There are lots of ways to channel your anger for justice -- I work with a lot of rape and abuse survivors who have turned their anger and pain into community activism, for instance. Venting in poems and artwork is also great! Black magic to harm other people isn't, though. (And I'll put on my admin hat and say that discussions of how to practice black magic are prohibited on this forum.)

[Lasiah]

That's why I didn't want to bring it up. I am aware I have a lot of hatred and I am trying to find ways to deal with it, probably why I feel compelled to add so much unneeded things to the response is a psychological way to deal with it. Thats why I didn't make the topic because it went into hexes and cursing and I know it was understandably not wanted to be talked about.

[SnowCat]

Often, the best revenge is moving on from what happened. If you move on, it removes any control that the other person may have had over you.

Snow

[Lux]

Most of the times what you people said, stop me from acting, now I asked, and you confirmed my thoughts, so I will have to meditate and ground myself probably. Thanks for your thoughts guys (and girls)!

More often than not, when we're angry, we're really just hurting ourselves. You feel the anger and it's occupying your mind, therefore that person who is causing the anger is having the desired effect on you, almost like their own latent curse. By letting go of that anger you're breaking that cycle, you can't change other people, but you can protect yourself against them.

In a lot of cases I find when you deflect those bad vibes they end up bouncing back to the person they originated from, like a latent counter-curse. No need to send bad vibes to them when you can just bounce them over.

[Vendredi]

Most of the times what you people said, stop me from acting, now I asked, and you confirmed my thoughts, so I will have to meditate and ground myself probably. Thanks for your thoughts guys (and girls)!

More often than not, when we're angry, we're really just hurting ourselves. You feel the anger and it's occupying your mind, therefore that person who is causing the anger is having the desired effect on you, almost like their own latent curse. By letting go of that anger you're breaking that cycle, you can't change other people, but you can protect yourself against them.

In a lot of cases I find when you deflect those bad vibes they end up bouncing back to the person they originated from, like a latent counter-curse. No need to send bad vibes to them when you can just bounce them over.

I very much agree with this.