Do the spells we cast have to be "approved" by dei

[[Obsidian]]

The discussion about love spells and the ethics of it have caused me to wonder what we think the role of deity is in the spells we cast. One could, hypothetically (I ain't sayin I am arguing that), argue that unethical love spells, for example, will not work because deity deems it inappropriate. Does deity interfere in this way with our spells or what do you all think? I am almost sure that if I were to ask the goddess in my prayers to make someone specific fall in love with me her answer would be "No Way Jose!!!" Are spells different?

Harry

[kuotetsu]

I'll be a fence sitter for a while since I think that it'll be hard to choose between your inner self and the divine. Some of us around were comfortable having connections with the divine and others are more comfortable with their own actions and responsibilities (inner self). Well maybe I'll just share my ideas about the topic.

As I learned in Philosophy, there are two types of religion by Erich Fromm. The first is what we call authoritarian religion. It says that God is a higher being that we should obey and has authority over man. It is apparent that the definitions given by oxford and other dictionaries pertain the same thing, that God has control over man. Relating it to the topic, a deity being an authority over what you are doing means you are "depending" on higher forces and thus submitting yourself to the divine.

Does deity interfere in this way with our spells or what do you all think? I am almost sure that if I were to ask the goddess in my prayers to make someone specific fall in love with me her answer would be "No Way Jose!!!"

In this manner you infer with the opinion of the divine and relying to her denotes an authority. On the other hand;

Humanistic religion states that God is just a symbol of man's power. Self-realization, that you are responsible of what you do.

No - deity let things happen and requires us to take responsibility for our actions.

This denotes humanistic type. That it is our individual actions to do what we wanted to do since God is the symbol of man's power, we are already God ourselves and putting all these actions in responsibility as what Deities do.

Therefore, it's hard to chose because people have different opinions about it and I respect.

(PS: I hope I explained my part.. )

[The Mystic Pilgrim]

Here's what I think. We are not slaves to Deity, nor are the deities our taskmasters. They are our partners in this journey, and as such, we have the free will to do as we wish, but here's the rub. Just as we are not slaves to the will of the deities, they are not slaves to our will either. So, if we are proceeding in a direction that they don't approve of, they can just withhold their blessing and power. So, it's a good idea to get some guidance as we proceed, otherwise we could find ourselves acting of our own power.

[The Judge]

I have to agree with The Mystic Pilgrim on this one.

Blessed Be,:D
The Judge

[AkanaAnash]

Something like what Mystic was saying, but I suppose I'd extend the explanation by saying that the deities themselves are working in concert.

So whatever spell we choose to cast, might get the blessing (read: "the nod" from the NtJr) and work really well, it might work really well anyway, it might not work at all...it might backfire...it might evolve....

Personally, I always ask first, use divination to get my answer and go with whatever I divine, but because we can't possibly know every effect a working might have in the world...even if we're angry or sad and use craft to right the situation...the NtJr might allow it simply because they have other plans for it's eventual outcome.

In other words, I certainly don't believe that deities are monitoring the "ethics" of our craft, nor would they completely "delete" a spell in the Universe simply because the intent might have come from an overly emotional place.

The Spirits are all about intent, but they're not policing us...it's up to us to police ourselves.

Can you picture it? Cosmic Hall Monitors? no way hahahhahahahahaha!


Thet

[The Mystic Pilgrim]

In other words, I certainly don't believe that deities are monitoring the "ethics" of our craft, nor would they completely "delete" a spell in the Universe simply because the intent might have come from an overly emotional place.

The Spirits are all about intent, but they're not policing us...it's up to us to police ourselves.

Can you picture it? Cosmic Hall Monitors? no way hahahhahahahahaha!

I completely agree. When I was referring to whether or not the deities approved of the situation or the spell, I was basically meaning whether they approved from their point of view and their desires, not our intent. After all, the gods are just as flawed as we are. So, they are bound to have very unique takes on spells, and people for that matter. For example, if you were calling upon Freyja, you certainly wouldn't want to ask her to lend her power to a spell that promoted cowardice for example. She would just look at you and laugh. lol

[wiccachicken]

Spells are our choice. We have to take consequences. I think the deities would allow a wrong spell to happen just so we can learn lessons.

I think it depends aswell if you're relying on the power of the deities to fund it. I don't always use my deities...sometimes I just use my own power to fuel spells. So I think if a deity strongly disagreed then the power would not be there to fuel the spell.

But overall, I think it's up to us. You can only learn from experience right?

Take care xx

[Makbawehuh]

What? People consult Gods before casting?!

Rofl. Okay, I'm sure there are people who do. I'm not one of them. I consult myself, and consider myself the first and last authority on all things pertaining to me. If I don't think it's a good idea, I don't do it. If I think it is, I do. End of story.

The gods and I ... eh. We don't talk much.

[ATraveller]

I think that if you invoke the name of a god or an entity in your magical workings, then it might be an idea to make absolutely sure that they'd approve of what you're trying to do. However, there are benefits - My mind has recently been opened to working with spirit entities, and it's quite a rush.

However, if you just do your magic without involving anyone, then I think that's that. The Universe doesn't play cops on you - Magic is in its nature amoral; for better or worse, those bits ultimately come from you.

A

[The Mystic Pilgrim]

I think that if you invoke the name of a god or an entity in your magical workings, then it might be an idea to make absolutely sure that they'd approve of what you're trying to do. However, there are benefits - My mind has recently been opened to working with spirit entities, and it's quite a rush.

However, if you just do your magic without involving anyone, then I think that's that. The Universe doesn't play cops on you - Magic is in its nature amoral; for better or worse, those bits ultimately come from you.

A

Exactly. I completely agree.

[jcrowfoot]

Ok... here's my take. I think that when we do a spell, no matter how good or bad it is, there's a good chance it will work.

However.

I also think that there are things that "aren't meant to be". I'm not saying that all things aren't possible, I'm just saying that some things don't happen at some times, and there's likely a good reason for it. Or a bad reason, or something.

I don't think that every spirit being plays well with others, and I don't think that all of them work in the same way, or even pull in the same way.

So yes, if you are going to go off and do something in the name of a diety, it's a REALLY good idea to find out if they'd like that or not. You could have a diplomatic incident on your hands.

And, I think that personal power plays into it A lot as well. But if you work with other beings, you are more likely to have it work if, say, you are having a bad day, or didn't charge yourself up good... it's kind of like an insurance policy.

However.

If you call a bunch of dieties who all may or may not want this thing to happen... you could "cross the streams" as it were, and far from saving the world, you could sink your spell before it gets off the ground.

I do think the gods have more power than us, but I don't think they want slaves. Oh,heck, some of them might, but I don't work with those, and those who like our sparks to be free in the Universe see fit to protect us from those who do whether we ask them to or not. Thankfully.

OTOH, if you ask to be someone's slave, you might be able to make that work. PLEASE don't try. Learning is great, but some experiences cause more wear beyond the lesson one could get from them.

[AkanaAnash]

Hey Mak,

I actually agree with you're saying as well.

My thing is, as humans, we've got phat personal power, to cast, to call...whatever, with or without a divine consultation, I do though, seeing
as that power was theirs to begin with, I view it as the difference between
taking a road trip alone, or taking someone with you that's rich, an excellent conversationalist and knows auto maintenance...so like, no matter what happens on the trip, the passenger can help.

Thet

[Makbawehuh]

It's been my experience with road trips, that no matter how great the person is that I'm with, they tend to irritate me by the end of the trip.

[hedge*]

I'd be interested to hear if people do call on deities to aid spell work what deities you do call on?

[oracle's child]

all my life i have believed in God. i see him as the creator of all things and i think of God as male because i grew up without a father and like the feeling of being taken care of. i have dabbled with only a few spells and before, during, and after have asked that God give his permission for the particular spell to work. they never have.
am i addressing someone who is too big to be bothered with me? from reading the previous posts i'm thinking i should be more specific in who i ask for help (if i feel i need it). part pf me doesn't want to offend if i do go to someone else and the other part says well, just like there are different doctors for different things, don't just stay home and hope for the best, pick one who specializes in the area of need. does anyone understand where i'm coming from?