The use of hallucinogens in Wicca

[Persephone]

Perhaps a strange topic to start my time on this board with, but it's a question that's been on my mind lately. Basically I'm reading books by Scott Cunningham right now and he mentions the shamans used hallucinogens during their rituals, but that the modern Wicca has done away with this. I'm wondering why this is exactly and if it's wrong to use hallucinogens in the context of Wicca?

I'm not a hardcore user of hallucinogens or anything, but I do use shrooms or LSD maybe 2 or 3 times a year. It's fascinating to me what the mind can do and see in these circumstances. Should I keep this separate from my Wicca interests though?

[SpiritTalker]

The Grimoire of Lady Sheba (1972-Llewellyn) was the 1st commercial publication of openly Wiccan teaching & rituals, i.e., not disguised as fiction (at least in the US.) Lady Sheba (Jesse Bell) was Alexandrian but her Eightfold Path text is the same as Gardnerian & I reference it only to show that "correct & controlled" use of hallucinogens was accepted.

The 8-fold Path (union with the divine)

First - Intention & concentration of intent...Visualization. Meditation.
Second- Rising on the planes. Using many trance states a.k.a projection of the astral body.
Third - The Keys: rites, rituals, chants, spell-casting, runes, charms, amulets, talismans, the magical link.
Fourth - The correct & controlled use of drugs (hemp, kat, mushrooms etc.), ritual wines, whiskey & incense.
Fifth - the dance & kindred practices to raise the fiery cone of power.
Sixth - Warricking, blood control by use of cords, breath control & kindred practices.
Seventh - the ancient rite of scourging to purify.
Eighth- the great rite, the spiritual Union as well as physical Union of male & female to create life. Sex magic.

Lady Sheba adds: "The 4th path is a very powerful way to the Center. The aids quickly unlock the inner eye & swiftly release the spirit from its physical prison. Therefore, judge ye wisely with whom ye will choose to tread the Pathways to Wisdom, for ye must accompany them until they stand in the Divine Light of the Center. This knowledge must not be taught to fools."

Some of the things in the 4th & 6th paths can kill you. Robert Cochrane died in 1966 of a ritual overdose. A responsible coven leader will not encourage fools. "Correct & controlled use" means it's not for solitary practice & should be monitored. Just sayin'. What anyone does is their business & choice.

[Firebird]

We here at EUTM, neither encourage or condone action within this subject matter and is only here for the purpose of knowledge.

The mushroom and other psychedelic's got a bad rap as of the 60's but it is being discovered that there is major healing power within a variety psychotropics. It's unfortunate that it becomes a difficult (to illegal) task to discover how they can be a beneficial tool in our magic bag.
In my opinion any church with legal status should be able to do what they wish when it come to contacting deity within their sacred temples as long as all parties are willing and murder is not involved. The Native American church comes to mind, and other native ceremonies such as the Sundance. But here in American if you are not of a recognized tribe to this end then pursuing psychedelic or mutilation rituals are illegal.
We are dwellers of the land where ever in the world you live and should be allowed to seek spiritual enlightenment however you get there. Just don't kill yourself in the process. There is a complex system of helpers and guides in these ceremonies that are essential to ensure that all stay safe within these Rites, keep that in mind.

BB, firebird

[Lord_of_Nightmares]

I would say Wicca doesn't encourage drug use but it also doesn't condemn it. I hope that make sense. Most Wiccan rituals contain no drug usage. I agree with FB and others about this. Not recommended for solitaries and probably not common in covens either.

[barker]

Drugs are for divine justice - take them serious.

[HopefulChild]

On the historical side of ritual and ceremonial magic for religious purposes hallucinogenics would not be recommended.
The incantations and prayers can be 200-300 words long and must be repeated for an hour or more over and over. Then all of the participants who have a role, usually 3-6 people have to conduct actions or activities throughout that time period as well. There is discussion whether the "incense" and perfumes of antiquity would have contained psychoactive compounds. Considering also that some ceremonies required burning pounds of incense, it's possible that people entered altered states by way of that. Trippin ballz would make that endeavor nearly impossible.

Shamanism is a different scenario and so is solitary magical practice. Shaman and solitaries (I'm a little of both) are looking to open up their perception and the thin the veil. If some "thing" gets you to the zone without endangering yourself, then harm none and do as you will.
There are groups, and schools of thought that warn that altered states of mind make you open to certain metaphysical dangers, so depending on your concern over those topics you would want to take that in to consideration.

I can't say that getting hammered, is beneficial to any one aspect of spirituality. All things in moderation. Unless you are just dead set on chaos worship. It's certainly not likely to make your rituals "more religousy".

I'm currently steeping a wormwood mixture in a 24% abv rum and I'll sip that next to my fire pit now that it's winter and meditate outside... It's not for partying, but it will make it easier to bypass my irritation of that person who cut me off in traffic, or the litany of meetings I have coming in the next week.

Now the reasons behind a lot of this is that Wicca is in that phase where it's popularity is growing past the original lashing out from the 60's to 80's and it needs to present itself to the "grown up world" as respectable. It's what happens to most people when they are about to turn 25 and they show up to their parents anniversary dinner dressed respectfully and don't get super drunk. This is how you show Mom and Dad how grown you are.

Wicca is trying to show the other religions how grown it is.

[Nostrum]

I would recommend using drugs really really carefully.https://addictionresource.com/drug-rehab/free-rehabs/ though there are enough rehab centers, only some of them are free.

[RosieMoonflower]

I have only ever done hallucinogenics for recreation, however I’ve still had a few spiritual experiences while using them unintentionally. I’m not advocating that anyone use these, but I do need to point out that hallucinogenics are difficult to get “addicted” to, VS opiates & other types of drugs, but not impossible. The main thing would be proper dosage which I don’t think I can speak to on this post. But, I can advise through PM. MODS please advise me if that is incorrect and I will not. And, obviously “set and setting” are the most crucial consideration when considering using these substances.

My very very good friend recently moved to Mexico on a soul searching yoga adventure. She met a Shaman there who took her into the jungle and gave her something called “bufo”. It was frog poison meant to bring about a DMT like hallucination. DMT is present in all living things, and some studies suggest humans produce high amounts of DMT naturally under serious life or death strain. Some say it is what causes the “life flashing before your eyes” experience some have reported having while on death’s door.

Her experience with the Bufo was life changing. She reported feeling like she was covered in bugs, but at the same time she felt pure absolute love from everything around her. She felt a connection to the universe and felt an understanding of the world as she had never before. She began to vomit and felt like dying. She fell into the mud on her face and she exited her body and could see herself face down from above. She thought she was dead. The shaman was with her the whole time, talking to her and telling to to let go and give into the Bufo at certain points. He also guided her back into her body and got her physically up out of the mud. She felt this was being reborn with all the new knowledge of the experience.

Since then she has not eaten any meat or animal products. She was never a vegan before, but she feels she can’t stomach meat any more. She has been less anxious and superficial. She feels at peace with her life choices which are exactly why she went to Mexico in the first place feeling she was lost. She kept up with the Shaman who owns a home he uses as a healing center that she visited and also completed a guided mushroom trip with him, but I haven’t got to hear about that experience yet.

The Shaman told her that many locals will go to the tourist beaches of Mexico and offer a shamanic experience, but in reality they give young people hallucinogenics and leave them on the beach to “figure it out”. He was once a young soul searcher who found himself on one of these beaches and saw how awful the experiences were and vowed to become a true Shaman who cares and does it correctly. I guess he’s been learning about shamanism in Mexico ever since. From what I gather, he seems very enlightened. When I get word on the recent mushroom experience she has with him, I will report back.

Rosie

[Firebird]

Hallucinogens are rarely addictive, however they can be dangerous in that one may think they can fly and then try. (for example) or perhaps one has gathered a mushroom they thought to be "magic" and it turns out to be a poisonous variety. LSD is not addictive, yet finding a pure form is iffy these days. Who know what other crap may be included.
Thanks for the link Nostrum, if anyone has a problem it would be best to seek help.
By the way Nostrum, could you please swing by the intro section and let us know a bit about yourself? Thanks.
BB, FF

[SnowCat]

My personal opinion, is that hallucinogens could be potentially addictive for some people. People exist, who truly would like to live in a state of hallucination. Opiates and benzos have the unpleasant side effect of being physically addictive.

[Firebird]

Yes, thank you for pointing that out Snow. Absolutely has the potential to be emotionally/mentally addictive.
I knew a girl in high school who was always on LSD, I don't think things turned out well for her, and she was a bit out there (wonder why ) and she thought people were so crazy, because they were not high like her.
I have also know people who have had a bit of a personality crack from it, Sid Barrett of Pink Floyd is a perfect example.
bb, FF

[evil ed]

My personal opinion, is that hallucinogens could be potentially addictive for some people. People exist, who truly would like to live in a state of hallucination. Opiates and benzos have the unpleasant side effect of being physically addictive.

Having had one hip. and both knees replaced I can tell you that opiates are not fun! The second surgery the nurses wanted to posh then as much as possible! ( "Does the term 'as needed' have any meaning to you?!") I can guarantee that the "buzz" did NOT help with psychic or mental abilities, in fact I can say it was more of a hindrance! Never so glad to see a "Tox Away Day" in my entire life! Last prescription for them was never filled and shoved in the shredder!

E.E.