Can you stay safe for sure?

[Ravenstar]

Why is it that people can stay Wiccan or witches and nothing happens to them like negatively and others have bad experiences? Like sometimes I watch a haunting on syfy...they are always showings stories about people who become involved in witchcraft and somehow incite evil in. How can you be successful at this while staying safe? I saw something on YouTube about a coven and they were doing a full moon esbat drawing down the moon. They protected themselves too but one of the girls got possessed kind of...WHAT? I think evil doesn't care about rules like if you protect yourself etc. Can you please clear all this up for me? Blessed be.

[Siona]

I watch a haunting on syfy...they are always showings stories about people who become involved in witchcraft and somehow incite evil in.

Those shows need to be taken with a huge grain of salt, because they're not 'educational' or factional programs, they're for entertainment. I've seen a lot of those shows talking about how the ancient pagans did this or that, and yeah... no. They really didn't.

As far as possession, haunting, and whatnot, those have been said to happen to people of pretty much all religions. Everyone has their way of dealing with malicious entities. Even Christians, devout ones, have told stories of dealing with a possession, or whatever else. It's not witchcraft or Wicca that attracts negativity, or bad experiences, they're something that can happen to anyone, regardless of their belief - just as good experiences aren't limited to one path, either. All humans are capable of experiencing both.

[Ravenstar]

You have a point. The more I think about it. It's all stories. We as a society are trained to believe witchcraft is evil but is it really...no just the manipulation of energies. And I'm beginning to wonder if people made up the devil from the horned god too. The more I guessed and research the more sense it makes. Thank you. Blessed be.

[Jenny Crow]

As well, there ARE people who end up in trouble because they play around with things that they know nothing, or not much, about.

Before doing a ritual like "Drawing Down the Moon" you need to be trained in what it's all about. It is a Wiccan ritual that is done on a full moon. If it's done in its entirety it IS about possession - the Goddess in invoked into the High Priestess by the High Priest and is a very moving experience for the High Priestess and the coven members as well.

Jenny Crow

[Lord_of_Nightmares]

Well, I watch a lot of those shows and patterns emerge from old folk stories, namely Christian ones. This is including in the Amish haunting stories. Someone strays religiously, they were once pious, maybe they get back to religion recently or they go back to their pious families after indulging for awhile.... then bad things happen to them. Usually it's seen as punishment for using something like tarot, which is hilarious because tarot was made and used by Christians for centuries with no problems, or just having a brief party phase. A lot of these shows rely on fear mongering and preying on puritanical Christian beliefs. They used to do shows just about ghosts where they may rely on a psychic or clairvoyant, nowadays most ghosts shows seem a bit religiously slanted. It cracks me up to watch them flip out over nothing, a majority of the time it's nothing. Anyways, belief is a powerful thing.

I like ghost stories so I am always indulgent. The better ghost shows as of now are the ones who just tell stories and not try to be like TAPS.

[Ravenstar]

Oh I know about drawing down the moon. The ex witch that told that said one of the coven members fainted than denomination growls came from her. Blessed be.

[Jenny Crow]

Oh I know ab out drawing down the moon. The ex witch that told that said one of the coven members fainted than denomination growls came from her. Blessed be.

What is a "denomination growl" if you don't mind my asking. The word "denomination" means either - a particular branch of the Christian church or it can mean - the face value of a banknote, coin or postage stamp. Denomination growl just doesn't make sense. If this member was possessed by an entity, then the circle was probably not cast correctly or strongly enough and something other than the Goddess came through. Were you there, did you see this?

I have known of, on occasion but very rarely, members fainting when participating in certain rituals.

You say you know about Drawing Down the Moon - did you know that the ritual is all about the H. Priestess being possessed by the Goddess?

I agree with Siona - those shows need to be taken with a grain of salt, although here and there will be a grain of truth. However you said - "We as a society are trained to think that Witchcraft is evil but is it really.....no just the manipulation of energies". This is not the whole story, Ravenstar - yes, you learn how to work with energy but that is only a small part of Witchcraft. Witchcraft goes much deeper than that - it is working with land spirits and other spirits, dark energies etc. etc. It is not all love and light as so many new age authors would have you believe, there is a glut of fluffy, anything-goes McWicca books that started to flood the market in the late 80's and early 90's which have created a huge misconception of what Witchcraft really is. It has to be remembered that a real Witch can use curses, love spells and other such staples which would likely make somebody weaned on modern "harm non, and never do magic without permission" reading material shake in their boots. Such ideas - that Witches never use curses and must ask permission from all involved before casting spells is entirely a modern invention and actually makes little sense. Much of the Craft's power comes from secrecy and if you go asking people if you can do spells on them, well, you've already blown that. Witches of old were capable of taking the responsibility of their magic and did not follow some glib "harm none" rule.

Witchcraft is facing your dark side and facing your Shadow so that you can become a whole person and walk in this life as a self-confidant person who can make judgements about when the use of magic is appropriate.

Initiation can be dangerous if you're not in honest harmony with yourself (body, soul and mind) or do not strive to be pure in your intent. In Witchcraft, you learn to work in and with the Otherworlds and if you're not secure and in harmony with yourself it can make a person become unstable. This is one reason why it is important to try to find a teacher or a coven/group that is stable and knowledgeable.

To answer your original question "Can you stay safe for sure?" - No - you cannot stay safe FOR SURE - only if you learn how to put up wards and protect yourself and learn how to perform certain things like casting a circle, working with energy and communicating with spirits and deities in a deeply respectful manner.

I'm not saying all this to scare you but people just starting out should be made aware of these things. Practicing Witchcraft and/or Wicca can be an amazing experience if you're aware of all the ins and outs.

[Kassandra]

.


Lots of great insights in this thread. I was gonna' quote a couple good ones, but then there were too many good ones, lol.




.

[Ravenstar]

True true. I know how deep it can go. When I orginally got into Witchcraft my instinct a lack of a better word was I so badly wanted to look for a coven. Solitary doesn't really fit me.

Oh I meant to say demon growl...I guess I typed it in wrong.

I've read Raymond Buckland book and omg I relied how deep it could go. Isn't all that harm none theory for Wicca? Yeah, it makes me laugh that you have to ask permission to put a curse on your enemy. My cousins roommate was Wiccan. She told me how she was teaching her boyfriend about it but than he went ahead and did a ritual summing powerful energies...she had to cast a circle around herself so she wouldn't be effected. A few days later he ended up in the mental hospital.

I've taken some online classes from Witchschool. Do you have to go deeper and darker? Or just stay at your comfort levels i.e. the underworld etc. I do want to learn everything not just the fluffy stuff. How would I be able to tell the difference. Like I found a class called wiccan way...it's taught by a metaphysical bookstore. But it's only for a short time so it's probably an introduction thing. So how could you tell the difference between witches who are just into the fluff feel good and the ones who are deeper? How to choose a coven or instructed that will teach it? Blessed be.

[Jenny Crow]

Hi Ravenstar,

Well, it'll be difficult to find the "real" stuff on line, I think. Paul Huson's book "Mastering Witchcraft" might be a step in the right direction for you, that might be a good place to start

[Ravenstar]

I just feel all these mixed feelings about this. I mean how are you suppose to look at witchcraft like yeah you have one with nature, candles,spells etc. But than there's the underworld, conjuring spirits etc. I know you are suppose to respect but I mean who wants to put themselves or families in danger either? How do you know when you are ready for all that? If Wicca and witchcraft are growing in popularity does everyone know about the darker side? Does that mean you have to fear nothing and how far do you go?

The show I was talking about was about a teen and her friend was into this. They summon up a demonic spirit on accident and it toured her family. So it can be true? I've kept coming back to witchcraft over and over then I get scared, get out of it,get back to my Christian upbringing then it's just a big cycle. I keep thinking we'll if I was experienced enough I can handle it or know how to protect or exorcism it out etc. That's why I don't want to be solitary...How can people do this just studying on their own? I just feel confused. Blessed be.

[Kassandra]

.


I think people shouldn't do things for the thrill of it, but do them because they need to do them. Otherwise, they should leave some things alone. If there's an actual need to, for instance, conjure spirits, then it should be done, with respect. But if there's no need to, why do it? In the show you mentioned, why the heck were they conjuring anything in the first place?

There was a member here who thought it was cool and neat to steal a poppet someone left in a cemetery. Now, if there's a poppet left in a cemetery, it's probably for a curse of some sort. I couldn't for the life of me get him to see how dangerous, not to mention unethical it was to do something stupid like that. He was a hardheaded teenager, and just didn't get it. He was simply thrill-seeking, and it really got on my nerves, haha.

Don't do things for no reason, or "just to see what happens if I do." Do things because there's some need you have in your life to do them. Just respect the spirit realm, and you'll be fine.




.

[Jenny Crow]

I agree with Kassandra. People shouldn't do things for the thrill of it.

You asked "how could you tell the difference between Witches who are just into the fluff I feel good and the ones who are deeper:. How to choose a coven or instructed that will teach it?" For someone in your position, Ravenstar, it wont' be the easiest thing. You can't know unless you join them. Unless you know what questions to ask I guess.

You sound very mixed up, Ravenstar, and confused about what you really want. You asked "How do you know when you are ready for all that?" My answer would be if you don't know if you're ready, then you're not, especially when you say when you come back to Witchcraft you get scared. Why do you want to pursue something that you are scared of???? As well, it all depends on what you're looking for. Do you want a coven that follows Wicca or do you want a coven practicing Witchcraft. Back in 1950's when Gerald Gardner founded the tradition of Wicca with Doreen Valiente Wicca and Witchcraft were basically the same thing (I know there are some who won't agree with this, but I was taught in the 60's and know it to be true). These days, Wicca has degenerated into a watered-down, "do what feels right" version of what it once was, but is something that many people enjoy, I agree with many others who now call it neo-wicca. Perhaps this would be something you may enjoy and not be so scared of. Some of these neo-wiccans practice magic and some don't. They, most of them, cast circles, celebrate the eight Sabbats and the full moons and enjoy nature in all her aspects and seasons.

Witchcraft, on the other hand, true Witchcraft, is still mainly hidden and I doubt very much you'd be able to find a coven of Trad Witches who would open their group to you. And if you want my opinion (if you don't, I apologize) I really don't think Witchcraft is for you.

You said "I've read Ray Buckland's book and omg I relied how deep it could go...." Ravenstar, that book is for beginners - - it really doesn't go that deep at all, but it's not a bad starter book.

I think perhaps you need to sit back, take a deep breath and really figure out what you want to do and where you want to go, and break the cycle of coming back and forth. Perhaps read some more books, start meditating and ask your guides for guidance.

[Ravenstar]

Thank you for your opinion. Oh I was basically just asking to be a witch do I have to do stuff like visiting the otherworlds? And I meant like if I cast a circle etc. How would I know if it's strong enough etc. I just want to do things correctly. I just want to find a good teacher. And every time I come back to wicca I feel stronger than other times. Yeah in those shows they never say why they conjure spirits. Oh well, now I feel better knowing that I don't have to do things that make me uncomfortable. Raymond Buckland s book which I can't remember the name basic talked a bit about going to the underworld. Thanks so much. I do feel a lot better about this. Blessed be.

[Ivy Amethyst]

Them shows are NEVER made by Wiccan producers. I saw one recently with these "ex-wiccan" women saying like "oh you believe you are god" and "I could have anything and anyone I wanted" and right at the end there was a big part on "thank god I changed to Christianity.

Mostly made by Christians who want more people to their religion.