Paganism = Feminism?

[Lightbringer]

Do you think you have to be feminist in order to be Pagan, or are they mutually exclusive?

I'm a Pagan but not a feminist. So...?

I'm well aware that feminism has heavily influenced certain Pagan paths, and that many Pagans are also feminists, but I was not aware that anybody thought all Paganism was inherently feminist until recently. I've been finding a lot of recent writings (blog posts and such) in which the author uses feminist terms and ideology and just takes for granted that everyone reading it will understand and interpret whatever he/she is saying as obvious truth.

As a non-feminist, I'm curious how widespread this belief is? Maybe it was just a coincidence since I get all my news from the same couple of sources.

[Xiao Rong]

So I consider myself a Goddess feminist and this topic is near and dear to my heart; I'll try to speak to this, but of course I can't speak for all Goddess worshippers, etc., and of course, that many feminists define feminism differently.

A bit of history - in the 1960s and 70s, during what is commonly known as the Second Wave of Feminism (in America, anyways), some feminists started questioning the idea of God the Father, and examined their own beliefs about the idea that God must be masculine, women were the cause of original sin, Eve was made from the rib of Adam, that God made man in his own image but not women, etc. This started a wave of feminist religious thinking - some feminists believed that there was value in the monotheistic God and Judeo-Christian religions, but that it needed to be reformed to be more inclusive of women's experiences (for example, by reviving the idea of "Sophia", Wisdom, the feminine qualities of the Holy Spirit, or by having women as priests).

Other feminists believed that Christianity was too inherently tainted by sexism to be redeemed. They see that God as male is too deep-seated a belief, and that it is a root cause of why women are devalued in Western society. They decided that they must seek other spiritualities that were inclusive of women's experiences. Around that time, Wicca and Paganism in general was also growing as a movement. Many feminists were especially attracted to a religion that cared about the environment, honored a Goddess along with the God, that spoke of the many phases of a woman's life as being equally valuable and important (Maiden, Mother, and Crone), that recognizes the feminine as essential to the world and creation, etc. So ultimately the Pagan and the feminist movements intertwined, with elements of feminism influencing Paganism, and visa versa.

There are plenty of people who call themselves feminists, but not Pagans, and plenty of people who call themselves Pagans, but not feminists. And people like me, who call themselves both. But I don't believe that all Paganism is inherently feminist (even though I hope that everyone will eventually come around to feminism).

As a non-feminist, I'm curious how widespread this belief is? Maybe it was just a coincidence since I get all my news from the same couple of sources.

Can I ask what those sources are? I'm very curious to know how you define feminism, since everyone defines it differently.

[Agarwaen]

I am always very confused when someone informs me that they are not a feminist, or even that they hate feminists. I think they confuse feminism with misandry. With this assumption I will state one fact, feminism does not encompass a hatred of men. It is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. Many feminists will define it differently, but this is basically a core element that all possible definitions have.

Wicca is a religion that teaches self worth, confidence, and the power of an individual. I believe that inherently it does indeed teach feminism to woman, and to a lesser extant to men. The Goddess and the God are held on equal pedestals, they walk hand in hand. Naturally those who follow their path will follow suit, and will view woman as powerful creatures who possess the Goddess within.

[Xiao Rong]

With this assumption I will state one fact, feminism does not encompass a hatred of men. It is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. Many feminists will define it differently, but this is basically a core element that all possible definitions have.

Wicca is a religion that teaches self worth, confidence, and the power of an individual. I believe that inherently it does indeed teach feminism to woman, and to a lesser extant to men. The Goddess and the God are held on equal pedestals, they walk hand in hand. Naturally those who follow their path will follow suit, and will view woman as powerful creatures who possess the Goddess within.

Preach it, sister!

I completely agree; I think there are lots of people who think that feminism means empowering women at the expense of men, or making women the dominant gender. But that's not what I want at all; I don't want either gender to have power over the other. I have a lot of thoughts about feminism, but I really like the description of feminism as "the radical notion that women are people". Which is indeed, pretty radical when you consider that almost every level of our society is built upon assuming that women are NOT people (whether that's the Madonna/whore dichotomy, or teaching that Eve is not in God's image, etc.). But I would hope that most people would agree with feminism in the sense that women are people (although, sadly, I have spent enough time on the Internet and known people in real life who really, actively hate women and wouldn't even agree with the idea that women are people).

I really like what the blog Quintrospection has to say about feminism:

Feminism is grounded in the principle that no one should be judged to a different/unfair standard due to their gender, and neither should they be stereotyped on account of the same. That said, gender equality is but one small piece of what feminism is all about. Gender equality, while a noble and worthy goal on its own, does not stand as an active force; once it has been achieved (by what standard?), it ceases to be. On the other hand, feminism is a positive affirmation of justice, freedom, mutual respect, fairness, equality, and compassion. It stands for a substantive vision of a better world; gender equality exists only in the negative. Even after we have reached a “gender-equal” society, we will still need and want feminism. Feminism constantly pushes to fight for a better, more just, and fairer world. Where gender equality is about accommodating to the system as it is, feminism is about (r)evolutionary change and radically re-imagining what is and can be.

"Feminism is a positive affirmation of justice, freedom, mutual respect, fairness, equality, and compassion" ---> THIS is why I am a feminist, and it's ALSO why I am a Pagan too!

[TwilightDancer]

Do you think you have to be feminist in order to be Pagan, or are they mutually exclusive?

I'm a Pagan but not a feminist. So...?

I'm well aware that feminism has heavily influenced certain Pagan paths, and that many Pagans are also feminists, but I was not aware that anybody thought all Paganism was inherently feminist until recently.
As a non-feminist, I'm curious how widespread this belief is? Maybe it was just a coincidence since I get all my news from the same couple of sources.

hmm, I definitely think the two go hand-in-hand, not to a radical feminist extent where the female half is dominant over the male, but there is a general sense of equality in Paganism. In my opinion at least. Honoring the God and Goddess, I see the two as equal halves of one whole, neither more important than the other but working together in perfect harmony.


Blessed Be

[Agarwaen]

Thank you, Xiao Rong. I also completely agree with Quintrospection blog. It's hard to put such strong emotions into words, and the blog did it beautifully. I think there will always be a need for feminists, but some day I would like to think that there wont be, though only because it's the thought of everyone.

[Lightbringer]

As for my "sources" I just meant blogs and such. One of the blogs I read the most frequently is Agora (I think that's what it's called?), and occasionally I'll see posts from other popular Pagan blogs floating around my social networks (like The Wild Hunt). I also follow Shauna Aura on FB and read whatever articles she's promoting.

I didn't say that I thought all feminists hated men, although I know there are a lot of anti-feminists who seem to base their hatred on that alone. I just think that "feminism" as a word is meaningless since there are so many different types of feminism, and some of those types even contradict one another. I also think that some powerful feminists use their ideas to harm society more than help it, and I don't wish to associate myself with a group that enables that kind of person. As for the kinds of blog articles that sparked this post, they use so many buzzwords and ideas that only feminists consider valid (like "Patriarchy" as one example) and it strikes me as eerie and cult-like.

I'm a gender nerd, so finding a religion that revolves around the balance between masculine and feminine (or God and Goddess) was a perfect fit for me. I don't think a person needs to be a feminist in order to appreciate or love femininity, and hate sexism. Even though I'm not a feminist, I'm happy to let others worship as they want because I hope that they would return that courtesy to me. I don't like feeling pressured to conform to a world view that I disagree with, and I'd like to know that I have a presence in the Pagan community regardless of my political values. (Again, speaking to the things that prompted my original post.)

[Firebird]

I think that while paganism has opened a spiritual door for feminists, it has also created some " super feminists" some who are convinced that men will become obsolete, and they will evolve to procreate with each other...like lizards...>sigh<
FF

[Xiao Rong]

I think that while paganism has opened a spiritual door for feminists, it has also created some " super feminists" some who are convinced that men will become obsolete, and they will evolve to procreate with each other...like lizards...>sigh<

You know, I spend a lot of time (I mean, a LOT of time) on both feminist and pagan blogs, and I cannot name a single pagan, feminist, or pagan feminist who has ever seriously said 1) that women were superior to men or 2) that they would desire a society where men would no longer exist and they could procreate with each other. I am aware that there was some speculative fiction of that nature regarding the latter (and mostly 20-30 years ago, in the heyday of feminist science fiction) but I have not read anything remotely similar to that recently. There was absolutely a time when some feminists were interested in lesbian separatism, but I think the number of people who still hold that view is very, very small nowadays. I don't know very much about Dianic Wicca, but I don't believe even that calls for the total separation of men and women in society, just a women-only spiritual practice.

I think we spend so much time saying, "Oh, but we're not like THOSE feminists" that we fail to recognize the very great debt that we owe to feminism -- in the US, anyways, if you can vote, go to school, get an advanced degree, have a job (that's not being a teacher or a seamstress), own property, run for office, write a book and get published, that is in large part thanks to feminism. I can go on all day ... The fact that we have women's health services, domestic violence shelters, women's lobbying groups ... that schools and campuses these days have to pay attention to how they support rape survivors ... that politicians cannot get away with saying "legitimate rape", the right to get a legal abortion ... I would also say that marriage equality and gay rights also have a lot to do with the feminist movement.

@ Lightbringer:

I just think that "feminism" as a word is meaningless since there are so many different types of feminism, and some of those types even contradict one another.

It is true that there are many different feminisms, and many are contradictory. But what I think all of them have in common is this: Society as a whole is not equal and still sexist against women, and something must be done to fix it. In my view, what makes for all the different feminisms is that people disagree on what is the original source of the sexism, and how to fix it. That doesn't change the fact that the fundamental premise still stands -- society is sexist against women.

I just think that "feminism" as a word is meaningless since there are so many different types of feminism, and some of those types even contradict one another. I also think that some powerful feminists use their ideas to harm society more than help it, and I don't wish to associate myself with a group that enables that kind of person. As for the kinds of blog articles that sparked this post, they use so many buzzwords and ideas that only feminists consider valid (like "Patriarchy" as one example) and it strikes me as eerie and cult-like.

By the way, it strikes me that what you said about feminism can just as easily apply to Paganism. There are so many different types of Paganism, and what I practice and believe might entirely contradict what you practice and believe. I also think that there are many Pagans whom I wouldn't want to associate with because I believe they are harmful to society and dangerous (for me, that's the white supremacists who use Asatru and Heathenism as a justification for their racism). I think that, on the whole, however, Pagans do a pretty good job at drawing lines and saying that some kinds of behaviors are unacceptable, and we try to disassociate ourselves from them. And Pagans also use a ton of words that an outsider would not understand and that only Pagans consider valid ("Book of Shadows", "coven", "Sabbat", "esbat", "athame" -- I could go on forever! Literata collected a whole list of "Paganese" here. I can think of many people (mainly Christians) who would consider Paganism a cult, with all our weird words and symbols.

But at the end of the day, I still call myself Pagan, because despite the fact that there are some drawbacks and some people I don't care for in the Pagan movement, I believe that there is still something beautiful and worthwhile in Paganism that I am willing to stick with it. Just because there are many different kinds of Paganism, I still believe we share something in common and there's plenty of room under the Pagan umbrella for a great diversity of beliefs and practices. And I very much believe the same thing about feminism.

I'm a gender nerd, so finding a religion that revolves around the balance between masculine and feminine (or God and Goddess) was a perfect fit for me. I don't think a person needs to be a feminist in order to appreciate or love femininity, and hate sexism. Even though I'm not a feminist, I'm happy to let others worship as they want because I hope that they would return that courtesy to me. I don't like feeling pressured to conform to a world view that I disagree with, and I'd like to know that I have a presence in the Pagan community regardless of my political values.

I'm certainly not trying to force you to identify as a feminist, and like I said, there's plenty of room under the Pagan umbrella for both you and me. But I do wish that people saw feminists less as the evil, bra-burning, man-hating enemy and recognize some common goals we have.

[Lightbringer]

I think that while paganism has opened a spiritual door for feminists, it has also created some " super feminists" some who are convinced that men will become obsolete, and they will evolve to procreate with each other...like lizards...>sigh<

You know, I spend a lot of time (I mean, a LOT of time) on both feminist and pagan blogs, and I cannot name a single pagan, feminist, or pagan feminist who has ever seriously said 1) that women were superior to men or 2) that they would desire a society where men would no longer exist and they could procreate with each other.

I have seen screencaps of radical feminists discussing, on reddit, the "flawed" chromosome in males and how maybe in the future we could "fix" it so that all humans are born female. While I believe (or hope) that only a fraction of feminists are this sick, and that many actually want to do good for society, the fact that you don't personally know of any who has said things like this doesn't prove that such people do not exist.

in the US, anyways, if you can vote, go to school, get an advanced degree, have a job (that's not being a teacher or a seamstress), own property, run for office, write a book and get published, that is in large part thanks to feminism.

society is sexist against women.

I think your view of the world is a little flawed, which is another huge reason why I'm not a feminist--because I don't share that view. Women in the US were not as restricted as you believe, historically speaking, and as for today, I don't believe that society as a whole is sexist against women. Of course there are sexist jerks, and sexist areas of the US, but it goes both ways. I think feminism over-emphasizes the amount of sexism towards women.

I just think that "feminism" as a word is meaningless since there are so many different types of feminism, and some of those types even contradict one another. I also think that some powerful feminists use their ideas to harm society more than help it, and I don't wish to associate myself with a group that enables that kind of person. As for the kinds of blog articles that sparked this post, they use so many buzzwords and ideas that only feminists consider valid (like "Patriarchy" as one example) and it strikes me as eerie and cult-like.

By the way, it strikes me that what you said about feminism can just as easily apply to Paganism.

Now we get to the part where you have twisted my words so much it's insulting. There are some VERY HUGE differences between feminism and Paganism.

Feminism is an ideology and a social movement based on a perceived problem. It is based on a set of unquestionable truths (that society is sexist towards women, for example). People who don't accept these truths are shamed, looked down upon, and/or considered part of the problem.

Paganism is a group of religions, and religion (or the choice not to adhere to one) is a basic part of the human experience. It does not exist to solve a pervasive, societal problem. It exists only to allow individuals to connect to the Divine. Additionally, unlike some other religions, Pagan religions don't tout an unquestionable truth, so it is very unlike feminism in that regard.

When a member of the Pagan community performs an atrocious act, the community as a whole holds that person accountable for their actions, as we saw with the recent Kenny Klein incident.

When a feminist does something atrocious and hurtful, or outright lies about statistics, the feminist community makes excuses for that person. "Not all feminists are like that" is what they usually say to critics, and they seem to turn a blind eye otherwise. This gives those "bad" feminists the power to influence others under the guise of feminism. This is why I am not a feminist.

I wasn't speaking about "terms" people use within a certain group that people outside of the group aren't aware of. I was talking about perceived truths, a world-view that non-feminists don't accept as truth. "Book of Shadows" isn't a way of viewing the world, or a thing that affects society regardless of who does or doesn't know about its existence. "Patriarchy" is.

I'm going to stop there. It's obvious that we're both very passionate about our stances (if it wasn't obvious on my end, then I'm announcing it now), and aren't likely to budge, so I'm opting to keep the peace since I enjoy this forum overall and want to remain on it.

If anyone new wants to throw in their 2 cents on my question ("Is Paganism inherently feminist / Do you think you must be a feminist in order to be Pagan?") please do. I'm just curious about the general consensus and your opinions. I'm really not trolling for arguments. I guess I was just wondering if I was alone!

[Xiao Rong]

I'm going to stop there. It's obvious that we're both very passionate about our stances (if it wasn't obvious on my end, then I'm announcing it now), and aren't likely to budge, so I'm opting to keep the peace since I enjoy this forum overall and want to remain on it.

Well, as you have given yourself a closing statement, here's mine.

I have seen screencaps of radical feminists discussing, on reddit, the "flawed" chromosome in males and how maybe in the future we could "fix" it so that all humans are born female. While I believe (or hope) that only a fraction of feminists are this sick, and that many actually want to do good for society, the fact that you don't personally know of any who has said things like this doesn't prove that such people do not exist.

No, it doesn't mean that such people don't exist, but it does mean that mainstream feminism now is not very interested in the "flawed" chromosome in men. I think if you are looking for extremists in any movement in an attempt to see the worst, you will find them. I think that Feministing is pretty good at curating feminist issues and is a pretty decent representation of what feminists are concerned about, and I have yet to see anything about eliminating men from the gene pool (let me know if you discover otherwise).

in the US, anyways, if you can vote, go to school, get an advanced degree, have a job (that's not being a teacher or a seamstress), own property, run for office, write a book and get published, that is in large part thanks to feminism.

I think your view of the world is a little flawed, which is another huge reason why I'm not a feminist--because I don't share that view. Women in the US were not as restricted as you believe, historically speaking, and as for today, I don't believe that society as a whole is sexist against women. Of course there are sexist jerks, and sexist areas of the US, but it goes both ways. I think feminism over-emphasizes the amount of sexism towards women.

Well, I can probably talk about how society is sexist at length, but just a few metrics to start with -- I still have yet to see a woman president in the US, equal representation in Congress (19% of members are Congress are women), and less than 3% of Fortune 500 CEOs are women. Women also earn 77 cents to every man's dollar.

Feminism is an ideology and a social movement based on a perceived problem. It is based on a set of unquestionable truths (that society is sexist towards women, for example). People who don't accept these truths are shamed, looked down upon, and/or considered part of the problem.

Paganism is a group of religions, and religion (or the choice not to adhere to one) is a basic part of the human experience. It does not exist to solve a pervasive, societal problem. It exists only to allow individuals to connect to the Divine. Additionally, unlike some other religions, Pagan religions don't tout an unquestionable truth, so it is very unlike feminism in that regard.

Both feminism and Paganism, in my understanding, are an umbrella of beliefs. I'm not sure what you mean by an "unquestionable truth", especially since my earlier statement that "sexism in society still exists" is a very broad statement -- feminists often disagree quite widely on why, how much, or how to solve that sexism, so feminism is hardly a single unified group mind who are not allowed to question a single dogmatic truth. And I do believe that the modern Pagan movement did grow out of a dissatisfaction with some pervasive, societal problems (e.g. environmental concerns, Christian religious dominance, and yes, sexism too!), since it has its roots in the 60s and 70s counterculture.

When a member of the Pagan community performs an atrocious act, the community as a whole holds that person accountable for their actions, as we saw with the recent Kenny Klein incident.

When a feminist does something atrocious and hurtful, or outright lies about statistics, the feminist community makes excuses for that person. "Not all feminists are like that" is what they usually say to critics, and they seem to turn a blind eye otherwise. This gives those "bad" feminists the power to influence others under the guise of feminism. This is why I am not a feminist.

Again, this is not what I've seen from my experience. First of all, you're mistaken in that there is a single, unified feminist community, and feminists are certainly not very interested in covering up bad feminists! (lol! Again, this would be very readily apparent if you read feminist blogs.)

I think you might also be misunderstanding what happened with Kenny Klein -- the Pagan community was indeed quick to condemn him, after he was arrested. But that was also after years of Pagans in the community refusing to believe and silencing the victims of his harassment and inappropriate behavior. I believe that the Pagan community now is having a very healthy discussion about sexual predators in the Pagan community, but if you've seen the community's divided response to Gavin and Yvonne Frost, it's hard for me to believe that Pagans as a community are as unified as you think on this subject. I'm not disowning the Pagan community here, but, again, like the feminist community, progress is a process that requires active dialogue and communication. We're all just trying to figure this stuff out, a little bit at a time.

Just a quick note about my personal experience: I believe that gender is also a basic part of human experience, and how our current society values gender is not adequate or acceptable in my opinion, which is why I was attracted to feminist Paganism in the first place. Accessing my womanhood is crucial to my connection to the Divine. For me, my feminism is inseparable from my spirituality. As I said before in an earlier post, feminism and Paganism both represent to me "a positive affirmation of justice, freedom, mutual respect, fairness, equality, and compassion". That's what I want. That's what feminism mean to me.

I think it's clear from your post that you have some issues with feminists that I don't necessarily know about, which is fine. But when you speak of feminists who are enabling other bad feminists, how dogmatic the whole movement is, etc., I feel like it's very disrespectful to me, since you are painting a broad brush about feminism, when I clearly identify as a feminist. I feel like you are excluding me and willfully not listening to me -- for example, you're saying that feminists are covering up the actions of other feminists, but even in my last few posts I've told you that I don't support the idea that society would be better off if men were entirely eliminated or whatever; clearly I'm not very interested in sweeping the bad stuff under the rug. I will openly acknowledge there are many branches of feminism that I do not agree with (e.g. Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism, TERF, or Sarah Palin's brand of Grizzly Bear Mama feminism). You don't want to be feminist and Pagan? That's cool. But you are also openly hostile and dismissive of people who ARE both feminist and Pagan. You're right -- we are both very passionate about our stances, and we aren't likely to budge, but that can't stop us from being respectful to one another.

Please, if someone else wants to chime in, feel free!

[Nightwatcher]

I personally identify as an Equalist; someone who sees the differences and similarities in the male and female sex and the value and need for both. To me, the biological differences do not make one more "competent" then the other and both are very important.

I actually despise feminism (and yes, I'm a woman myself) because so many have warped the original meaning of understanding and equality to use it as an excuse to subjugate men, to make men feel guilty and to excuse negative actions done by women towards men and even one another! For example, many of these feminists list reasons as to why feminism is needed, the biggest being citing a lack of respect from men. Yet I have the opposite problem; men always show me respect, calling me insightful, beautiful, intelligent... while fellow women call me a bitch, a drama *explicit* and other negative things.

It makes me wonder sometimes if women bring the negativity to themselves; the Law of Attraction if you will. They expect a man to show disrespect and it draws those few men who are not respectful to themselves, or draws out the disrespect from men.

As a random side note, the difference in pay of women vs. men is caused by statistical discrimination; when you adjust for things such as education, area of work, area of employment, etc. it becomes the same. The largest reason for the discrimination is that it is the female that biologically has children, not the male. However, it is illegal to discuss whether or not a potential female employee will have children, get married at all, etc. so the risk of the female employee having children, taking maternity, not coming back, etc. causes the largest reason for the decrease. I learned this is my labor and economics class (in case you're wondering where the source material is coming from).

[Xiao Rong]

Hi Nightwatcher, I'm really curious about how your opinions reconcile with your work with Artemis. You seem to have really negative interactions with women, but to the best of my understanding of Artemis, the Virgin Huntress, she forswore all men and shunned their company, and punished severely any of her followers who had dalliances with men (e.g. Kallisto the Bear). She famously killed a man who dared spy on her as she bathed by turning him into a stag and left him to be hunted down by his own followers. In my understanding, she was kind of the ultimate gender separatist.

It makes me wonder sometimes if women bring the negativity to themselves; the Law of Attraction if you will. They expect a man to show disrespect and it draws those few men who are not respectful to themselves, or draws out the disrespect from men.

I also wonder about your overwhelmingly negative experience with other women. Might this be the Law of Attraction at work too? I am not personally a believer in the Law of Attraction, but by your own logic, perhaps you are attracting negative experiences with other women because you expect them to be negative, for whatever reason. (and likewise, only attracting positive attention from men because you expect it to be positive)

[Nightwatcher]

Hi Nightwatcher, I'm really curious about how your opinions reconcile with your work with Artemis. You seem to have really negative interactions with women, but to the best of my understanding of Artemis, the Virgin Huntress, she forswore all men and shunned their company, and punished severely any of her followers who had dalliances with men (e.g. Kallisto the Bear). She famously killed a man who dared spy on her as she bathed by turning him into a stag and left him to be hunted down by his own followers. In my understanding, she was kind of the ultimate gender separatist.

It makes me wonder sometimes if women bring the negativity to themselves; the Law of Attraction if you will. They expect a man to show disrespect and it draws those few men who are not respectful to themselves, or draws out the disrespect from men.

I also wonder about your overwhelmingly negative experience with other women. Might this be the Law of Attraction at work too? I am not personally a believer in the Law of Attraction, but by your own logic, perhaps you are attracting negative experiences with other women because you expect them to be negative, for whatever reason. (and likewise, only attracting positive attention from men because you expect it to be positive)

For your first point, there is actually a very large misconception about Artemis. Through my research about her throughout the years, I made a surprising find; the meaning of the word "virgin" back in ancient Greece is different then how we use it today. Back then, a "virgin" meant a woman who chose her own mate. In essence, she refused to be subjective to men and to be equal. Now, this does not mean Artemis herself did not swear off the company of men sexually; she did explicitly state this to her father Zeus. But in none of the myths have I read her punishing women who were not celibate (as in not ever having sexual contact with men.) As for the myth of the bear you mentioned, there is more detail to the story then her simply changing her and her son into a bear; her follower and Zeus had a son together and Artemis feared the wrath of Queen Hera coming down on them. That is why she turned them into bears. It was another hunter that slew the two and in her sadness Lady Artemis changed them into the Bear constellations.

Also, of her many titles, Lady Artemis is Goddess of the Hunt. Hunters were traditionally men. If she wished for true separation of the genders, she would give them no protection. Lady Artemis showed respect for men and gave women a way to be treated equally as well. As for the story of the stag, yes, she did this. But if you were an all-powerful goddess and a man came to you lustfully and watched you as your bathed, I'm quite sure the reaction would be similar. It was not that he was a man so much as invading her privacy and lusting for her, which she disliked. She even fell in love with the hunter Orion though she was tricked by her twin Apollo into killing him (some myths say to help keep her celibate, others because he was jealous of her love for the hunter). So, the way Lady Artemis treats men and women - and equal and important, contributing and complimenting - aligns perfectly with how I feel about men and women.

Now, for your second point, this is a very valid comment. It is highly possible that by being weary of my fellow woman I bring out the ones who will be mean and cruel to me. I know that I tend to wallow in negativity out of habit (something I am currently trying to stop doing) so it is highly possible that some genuinely negative experiences with some females of the past have tainted my bias and thus, I keep drawing out the negative properties from fellow women towards myself.

[MistressOfTheMoon]

I share the same sentiment as Nightwatcher in being an Equalist. I have no preference for either gender, and believe that there is a need for both of them.

Some might get furious by this next statement I am about to make, but I do believe you cannot call yourself a pagan if you shun either gender. Both feminine and masculine energies are present in nature, and their union is an important aspect in the regeneration of life. To shun either the feminine or masculine aspect, is ironic and contradicting to the pagan way of drawing inspiration from nature.

And I also agree with Nightwatcher on her explanation of a virgin goddess, which is often misconstrued by women as a calling to be celibate. It merely implies non-submission to men and having the power of choice when it comes to mating.

Off-topic: A friend told me I should be celibate to follow Hecate, a virgin goddess and was utterly shocked. Of course I didn't follow her advise and Hecate continues to watch over me anyway. There is power in sexual freedom ladies! And on the plus side, if a man wrongs you, expect a virgin goddess to exact vengeance for you. I do not see this as a feminist act, but rather a display that there should indeed be equality among genders. And men taking advantage of women is a no-no for them.