Maiden, Mother, Crone Question

[Klia]

Hello all!

Just a quick question about the Triple Goddess. I know the Maiden is the goddess before her pregnancy and with the God when they marry, the mother is when she gives birth at Yule and raises the God, but what is her time as the Crone? Samhain?
She never dies but gets old?
Why does she age but isn't reborn?
Or is her aging just considered the waning moon phase?
And how does she become young again?

I found this - is it correct?

The Maiden represents enchantment, inception, expansion, the promise of new beginnings, birth, youth and youthful enthusiasm, represented by the waxing moon;
The Mother represents ripeness, fertility, sexuality, fulfillment, stability, power and life represented by the full moon;
The Crone represents wisdom, repose, death, and endings represented by the waning moon.

Thanks guys! I'd love to hear your opinions or beliefs on this!

[Xiao Rong]

Traditionally, the Mother changes into the Crone when she reaches menopause, if that's what you're asking? The Crone does die (represented by the new moon phase), where she becomes the Maiden again (whether or not she's reincarnated, or because she has passed on her wisdom to another Maiden is up to personal belief).

I think your associations with the Maiden, Mother, and Moon are generally pretty good. I would add that the Maiden and the Crone both represent independence, and the Crone also has power over transitions, transformations, and death (the death of others as well as herself).

[Klia]

So the Goddess doesn't die, but the crone part of her does? Which is represented by the new moon. ?

I prefer the reincarnation belief.

I guess I'm confused by the moon aspect and the Goddess's life in general. I understand that the moon is always reborn. And the God is too. But the Goddess never dies, right?

I'm sorry if I'm sounding so stupid right now ha.

[Heartsong]

You don't sound stupid at all, love. Quite the contrary, you sound inquisitive.

Personally, I like to look at the three aspects of the Goddess as being simultaneous, I suppose. In the plainest terms I can come up with, she's always possessing all three facets at the same time. I guess I see her this way because I most easily relate to her through myself. I am a young woman, and yet I am mature enough to be considered someone that people younger than me should address with a respectful "Ma'am". I'm not even thirty yet, but I think of myself as an old soul. Depending on the context in which I find myself, the role I play or may be assigned changes. Identity is fluid.

In a similar sense, I see the Goddess as constantly shifting from one aspect to another, not so much depending on age or the time of year, but more along the lines of what aspect she prefers at any given moment. Time is a human construct, and thus I believe She exists outside assigned moments we may give her. For instance, Samhain is a time of both death and rebirth, so I see her as taking the roles of Maiden (reborn), Matron (pregnant with the God), and Crone (passing and reforming once again as Maiden). I take the same view when considering the moon phases. I can see attributes of the Full or New moons in all three aspects.

In this way, I believe that the Goddess isn't limited to a single form at specific times, but rather occupies all three or none as She chooses to appear, for lack of a better term. I do like the associations attributed to her in your list, it's a very easy way to navigate what aspect of her you may want to focus on for certain spells or crafts. However, with my train if thought, it would follow that, in essence, which form she may take is irrelevant because she occupies all three at once, or none at all. You could also argue that the Goddess is then both constantly at the point of birth and death. She occupies all points of life as the three aspects, and yet none due to her position as a deity.

This is all my opinion of course, and I could spend days just debating the possibilities I'm dabbling in, so I'll stop here. I hope I didn't muddy the waters too much for you, Klia, my academic gremlin gets the better of me sometimes.

[Xiao Rong]

No, no, these are great things to talk about. I think it kind of depends on how you think of the Triple Goddess ... I interpret her as more of an archetypal figure, a way to think about the power throughout a woman's life, not necessarily as (the) Goddess of Wiccan belief. I've read that one might think of the moon as having 3 phases (waxing, full, and waning) which corresponds to the Maiden, Mother, and Crone.

In the story of the Wheel of the Year as the Goddess giving birth to the God, who matures and then dies, and then she is pregnant again, you're right - the Goddess never dies. But this is not the only way to look at the way in which the Goddess's life cycle is played out. The way that I see it, the Goddess IS change; she not only undergoes changes, but also initiates changes (Starhawk chants: "She changes everything she touches, and everything she touches changes."), and is changed by the things that she changes. So in this sense death is a part of the Goddess; it is natural that she also dies. There's the ancient Babylonian story of Inanna traveling to the Underworld, where she is killed by her sister, and a more modern retelling where the Goddess, spurning the advances of Death, is killed herself, and then reborn.

Heartsong also makes a good point - the Goddess has three aspects, and she can access all three of them simultaneously.

[Firebird]

Personally, I like to look at the three aspects of the Goddess as being simultaneous, I suppose. In the plainest terms I can come up with, she's always possessing all three facets at the same time.

couldn't have said it better myself.

If you desire to assign her to the wheel of the year she would fit like this... the Maiden is at Imbolc, Mother at Litha, Crone at Samhain.
Both Xiao and Heartsong have excellent words on this
Blessings, Firebird

[Klia]

In a similar sense, I see the Goddess as constantly shifting from one aspect to another, not so much depending on age or the time of year, but more along the lines of what aspect she prefers at any given moment. Time is a human construct, and thus I believe She exists outside assigned moments we may give her. For instance, Samhain is a time of both death and rebirth, so I see her as taking the roles of Maiden (reborn), Matron (pregnant with the God), and Crone (passing and reforming once again as Maiden). I take the same view when considering the moon phases. I can see attributes of the Full or New moons in all three aspects.

You really helped me on this one! I like how she can be all three at one time. I never even realized that she could be all three at Samhain. A light bulb just went off in my brain! ha. Some people see her as young, middle aged, and old. But you don't see her that way right? It's more of a maturity or personality aspect. I think I like that idea better. Because I can't picture her aging but never dying. It would make sense that in one moment she is mourning (perhaps the crone) but she is still a mother (pregnant with the God) and quite happy. Maybe people see her as aging when it comes to the moon phases. When the moon gets smaller she is considered to be 'old' and 'the crone'. It just didn't make sense to me. But now I see that I can think of her any way I would like. To me the moon phases just represent her changing. She is ever changing, but always constant and is there to remind us of death and rebirth and the cycle of life.

I interpret her as more of an archetypal figure, a way to think about the power throughout a woman's life, not necessarily as (the) Goddess of Wiccan belief.

In the story of the Wheel of the Year as the Goddess giving birth to the God, who matures and then dies, and then she is pregnant again, you're right - the Goddess never dies. But this is not the only way to look at the way in which the Goddess's life cycle is played out. The way that I see it, the Goddess IS change; she not only undergoes changes, but also initiates changes (Starhawk chants: "She changes everything she touches, and everything she touches changes."), and is changed by the things that she changes. So in this sense death is a part of the Goddess; it is natural that she also dies.

Perhaps her death is of her changes? Like how she is changing from season to season or moon to moon, becoming newer, fresher person? It's like with everyone, we all go through changes and parts of us 'die' while other parts thrive. The last part confuses me though. But you don't believe she dies physically, just emotionally?

And I prefer to see her through the Wheel of the Year, firebirdflys. I just have to memorize Imobolc = Maiden, Litha = Mother, and Samhain = Crone.

You guys are so helpful, you have no idea! I always knew there was a mother, maiden, and crone. But to see pictures of the crone looking so physically old, in my mind that is near death. But she is immortal so I was confused.

[valerian moon]

No, no, these are great things to talk about. I think it kind of depends on how you think of the Triple Goddess ... I interpret her as more of an archetypal figure, a way to think about the power throughout a woman's life, not necessarily as (the) Goddess of Wiccan belief. I've read that one might think of the moon as having 3 phases (waxing, full, and waning) which corresponds to the Maiden, Mother, and Crone.

In the story of the Wheel of the Year as the Goddess giving birth to the God, who matures and then dies, and then she is pregnant again, you're right - the Goddess never dies. But this is not the only way to look at the way in which the Goddess's life cycle is played out. The way that I see it, the Goddess IS change; she not only undergoes changes, but also initiates changes (Starhawk chants: "She changes everything she touches, and everything she touches changes."), and is changed by the things that she changes. So in this sense death is a part of the Goddess; it is natural that she also dies. There's the ancient Babylonian story of Inanna traveling to the Underworld, where she is killed by her sister, and a more modern retelling where the Goddess, spurning the advances of Death, is killed herself, and then reborn.

Heartsong also makes a good point - the Goddess has three aspects, and she can access all three of them simultaneously.

"I think it kind of depends on how you think of the Triple Goddess ... I interpret her as more of an archetypal figure, a way to think about the power throughout a woman's life, not necessarily as (the) Goddess of Wiccan belief. "

OH! THAT WAS SO PERFECT!
I look at it more as representative of the goddesses life. she never really dies, but turns into the crone, then is a maiden again when it's time for the god to be born. I think the triple moon represents her life though.

[Heartsong]

I like how she can be all three at one time. I never even realized that she could be all three at Samhain. A light bulb just went off in my brain! ha. Some people see her as young, middle aged, and old. But you don't see her that way right? It's more of a maturity or personality aspect.

Yes, exactly! ^.^

To me the moon phases just represent her changing. She is ever changing, but always constant and is there to remind us of death and rebirth and the cycle of life.

I also see her this way. I relate her very strongly to the element of water, perhaps because of the relationship between the sea and the moon, and also probably because of the fluidity of her presence. She is cool and refreshing to me, a quiet place to catch my breath and relax for a moment. And yet she can be the exact opposite. The Triple aspects reflect this shifting of her identity to me. Constant, yet slightly different at every glance, like the tide.

Xiao Rong wrote:
I interpret her as more of an archetypal figure, a way to think about the power throughout a woman's life, not necessarily as (the) Goddess of Wiccan belief.

In the story of the Wheel of the Year as the Goddess giving birth to the God, who matures and then dies, and then she is pregnant again, you're right - the Goddess never dies. But this is not the only way to look at the way in which the Goddess's life cycle is played out. The way that I see it, the Goddess IS change; she not only undergoes changes, but also initiates changes (Starhawk chants: "She changes everything she touches, and everything she touches changes."), and is changed by the things that she changes. So in this sense death is a part of the Goddess; it is natural that she also dies.

Perhaps her death is of her changes? Like how she is changing from season to season or moon to moon, becoming newer, fresher person? It's like with everyone, we all go through changes and parts of us 'die' while other parts thrive. The last part confuses me though. But you don't believe she dies physically, just emotionally?

I'm sure Xiao will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that she may mean that, as a deity, it's natural for the Goddess to reflect the transitions that we go through. Because death is a natural part of the human life cycle, it is also natural, and important, that she go through the same transition. She is thus closer to us and we to her, because through life, we have a mutual understanding of one another, or as close as we can get.

I also believe that what you're saying, Klia, about spiritual or emotional death, is also applicable. The Goddess experiences the joy of birth, the sorrow of loss of a loved one when the God 'dies', etc. Every change that can represent a metaphysical death in our lives is mirrored in the seasons and thus in the Goddess's life we symbolically honor in our holidays. And like life itself, she continues, and is eternal. It is in her Triple aspect that we are able to comprehend, I think, just how she encompasses all experiences and can furthermore share them with us, to the fullest extent possible.

You ask such marvelous questions, dear! I really have to think! I love it!

[Xiao Rong]

I'm sure Xiao will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that she may mean that, as a deity, it's natural for the Goddess to reflect the transitions that we go through. Because death is a natural part of the human life cycle, it is also natural, and important, that she go through the same transition. She is thus closer to us and we to her, because through life, we have a mutual understanding of one another, or as close as we can get.

Yep, that's pretty much right!

The Goddess experiences the joy of birth, the sorrow of loss of a loved one when the God 'dies', etc. Every change that can represent a metaphysical death in our lives is mirrored in the seasons and thus in the Goddess's life we symbolically honor in our holidays. And like life itself, she continues, and is eternal. It is in her Triple aspect that we are able to comprehend, I think, just how she encompasses all experiences and can furthermore share them with us, to the fullest extent possible.

Wow, Heartsong, beautifully said. I think this is absolutely how I understand the Goddess. For the Goddess (and anyone, really) to be a part of this world, she absolutely has to know death. We also have to remember that not only does she die herself, but she also deals quite a lot in death. The Crone is most commonly thought of as the Death Dealer (brewing over a cauldron stirring up poisons, in the popular image of the witch), but she, as the widow who's seen so many of her loved ones die, can guide others through the process of dying and transformation. Meanwhile, the Maiden might be young and innocent, but she can also be the hunter or the warrior maiden (as in the Valkyries or Artemis's huntresses). The Mother can be nurturing and life-giving, but the Mother must sometimes also kill to protect and feed her young, or choose some of her children to die so that others may live, or choose to have an abortion - these are all aspects of the Mother, who can be wonderful and yet also terrible. The Triple Goddess is not all love and light, but these are also essential experiences of life and womanhood that cannot be ignored.

[Klia]

Hey guys! Sorry I haven't replied since the 16th! Horrible me =(

I completely understand things now. We can see the goddess as closer to us because she, like us, goes through many transitions and changes. I didn't realize how much went into what a maiden, mother, and crone is. Even through the negative, there is more positive.

I wish I knew what else to say. You all have really helped me understand this better. I feel a better connection now, after learning more about her and the changes she goes through in each aspect. She can be all three, more one than another, etc. I love it. Good thing there's professionals on here to help out the newbies THANK YOU!

[Firebird]

I like to make triple Goddess jewelry, utilizing her sacred colors. White, for her new pure vital and virginal energy. Red for the woman's moon blood sensuality and life giving force. Black for her ability to hold the magic and her dark life taking aspect. Braids with these three colors are fun, and it weaves a bit of ones faith into an anklet or bracelet. Only the wise know why you are brandishing those colors.
BB, Firebird

[Klia]

That's a pretty cool hobby and idea. Do you use them as prayer beads also? I've seen many people make their own on etsy but I didn't know they were for any religion. Some people have 13 beads for the moon cycles, 8 beads for the sabbats, and lots more. It's a pretty unique idea.

[DPhoenix]

I also see her this way. I relate her very strongly to the element of water, perhaps because of the relationship between the sea and the moon, and also probably because of the fluidity of her presence. She is cool and refreshing to me, a quiet place to catch my breath and relax for a moment. And yet she can be the exact opposite. The Triple aspects reflect this shifting of her identity to me. Constant, yet slightly different at every glance, like the tide

Wonderful analogy!

The Goddesses represents the moon & the moon has strong ties to the ocean, controlling it's ebb and flow.

Water also has 3 phases, evaporated, liquid & solid... as the Goddess has 3 phases the maiden, mother & crone.

Some witches see the 3 phases as 3 separate Goddesses while others see it as the same Goddess going through the natural phases of birth,life & death only to be renewed & start again.

You can also view the aspects of the Goddess as a representation of the progression of our own lives (as well as the 3 degrees of Wicca).

Maiden: The woman-child coming into her own. She is full of life, curiosity & mischief. She has lots to learn and is eager to learn it. She is experimenting with different concepts such as relationships, ideals and the tangible to decide who she wants to be and how to define herself.

Mother: The maiden has discovered who she is and what she believes. She has joined with the God to facilitate creation and life. She teaches the maiden/children the precepts and skills to succeed in life. Her womb ripe and full, breasts abundant with milk. She nurtures and brings forth life.

Crone: Silvery hair like the moon, sandy ocean wrinkles adorn her face. She stands with dignity and respect for others seek her wisdom. Despite her frail appearance, her strength and resilience of spirit inspires all around her. She doesn't fear death for she knows it is not the end but a transition that has always been and will always be.

[Klia]

Lovely! The number 3 is very important in Paganism.

More examples:

Goddess, God, Gaia. Father, Son, Sage.