Harm to others as last resort.

[Look in the Silence]

Okay..... So I have been pondering this for quite some time and I don't trust anywhere else for answers of this nature but if through a turn of significantly catastrophic events and your life was immediately being threatened by another human being and we are holding a loaded gun in our hands, are we allowed under the Laws of Wicca (or under The Wiccan Rede) to end that person's life in order to save our own? I know the rede says 'and harm ye none, do what ye will' but..... Idk. I am stuck. Help? Thanks in advance.

[Greek_Male_Witch]

Look Scott Cunnigham in his book says "If the need rises, you can defend yourself with attacking spells" BUT, is it really as tragic as you see it? or you just feel trapped? is it really a last resort and does it justify killing someone? even with a spell?

Believe me, I was in a situation like you (ask around, I was posting about harming someone with curses) but at the end, the thing is to thing calmly if you can....if there is any other option, do that! not the easy but harmful one!

[AutumnMaidens]

Well this is a matter of ethics and karma and how you percieve them.
Some people would translate the rede as "Don't cause harm to anyone" if this is fact then that includes yourself, so if someone else were to cause you harm that would go against the rede, and it would depend on your own idea of ethics wether or not it would be alright for you to cause harm.

You could reason that if this person were to cause harm to you he would go out and cause harm to others and therefore he would break the rede several times. So the question would be "Can I cause harm to one to save many?" Again this would depend on your idea of ethics.

Hope this helps,
Blessings

[Celtic Raven]

I believe your question has many shades of grey, there is no definitive answer to it. It all depends on individual circumstances, and every occasion would have a different answer.

I am not Wiccan, so cannot answer from that viewpoint. However, if you were being threatened by another human being who had a loaded gun in their hands and they had intimated their intention to shoot you or seriously harm you, and you also had a loaded gun in your hand (albeit I would question how that situation came about!), then there would be no question about the answer. It would be either you or them, and frankly spellwork doesn't come into that scenario. You would also exercise logic in that kind of scenario - if you failed to act, then you could allow an individual to harm numerous other people. Most of us will never see a situation of that magnitude though.

If you were being physically threatened by another human being, then each situation would boil down to individual circumstances and the intention of the other person. On many occasions people make threats that they either have no intention of carrying out, or are incapable of carrying out. In those circumstances, then to hurt another individual would not be right.

Personally I have no issue with on occasion simply returning to source any threats or ill wishes or whatever - however that is always dependent on the situation and is not my first response. Return it to source so the sender can learn the error of their ways if the sender was intent on causing harm or mischief. If they can send it out, then they should be able to deal with it. Although it would be to return it to source without adding any further negativity to the situation. When I would not do that is when the other person is in some way not in their right mind, not intentionally doing it, or not necessarily a bad person just acting out of character. In those situations, their intention and judgement is clouded for whatever reason, and they don't need me adding to the situation. The negativity and ill wishes are out there, I'm just not accepting them and either return them to the sender or dissipating the threats or ill wishes so they do not harm anyone.

My main concern would be with being careful about your own intention behind returning negativity to source. To return something in anger, or to return something which would cause additional harm on top of the original negativity, is not a good indication of your own mindset. Whatever I do, I am in control of myself and my emotions, otherwise I am no different from the other person.

There have been in the past one or two occasions where an individual, or individuals, have entered my property with the intention of causing damage. On those occasions, I am perfectly happy to leave or send 'a little something' for them to take home with them for their trouble. In terms of trespassing, then again, a little something can be left which clearly marks out the boundary. I generally find that's all it takes, and the boundary does not get crossed. Again, it's down to intention - if no harm is intended by the person trespassing (eg kids retrieving footballs etc), then nothing happens to the other individual. If the intention is otherwise, then that's a different story and they asked for it.

I do have an issue with people who make idle threats or curses against others because they feel it gives them a degree of power over other individuals, or others who use it for their own gain. I came across one such individual a couple of years ago, she had terrified another individual into believing she had cursed her and it had seriously impacted on the other person being able to get on with their life. Strange how she changed when confronted, the only power she had was in playing on other people's lack of knowledge and vulnerability.

[Look in the Silence]

I'm dealing with a psychotic rapist stalker who is becoming increasingly more violent. I have enacted the power of the moon and sun to protect me whenever their light touches the Eart... But I fear that this will not last forever. So my question fouls down to -if it were me or him; would the Universe forgive me and allow me stay in the Deities' good graces? Or should I allow him to take my life?-

[Alluma Nati]

The Universe would forgive you in that situation if it came down to you or them however we live in a world governed by law so your first action should be to get a restraining order against said individual for if you don't and it comes down to a situation of you or said individual you don't imprisoned for defending yourself...

[Look in the Silence]

Yes. I have a restraining order. The situation is complicated.... But I have my answer. Ty

[roseonfire]

According to the laws of Trad Wicca, you can bring harm when it becomes necessary, but know just what you do and what I'll mean. Meditate about it first. Every action will have an opposite reaction. However, this is all really a matter of your personal ethics and what you believe is right. As Greek Witch said, it is often best to find a way to do things more peacefully.