Supernatural Phenomena vs. Spirituality

[)O( Krystal Raven )O(]

So. Some of us have acquired our personal beliefs based on actual events in our lives that put us in contact with paranormal and/or supernatural events. Others of us have reached our present conclusions on reality based on an inner spiritual quest or the practical desire for knowledge. I am, of course, offended by those who believe unusual spiritual events are based on inner perception rather than actual exterior forces, because what I have seen/heard/felt/tasted/battled/known extends far beyond the power of my rather large imagination. Of course, I also believe all skeptics have the right to live in their self-created darkness. My question is, how do things work for you? Do you believe in the unseen world as you have experienced it? Or do you believe the unseen world is simply the subconscious mind? Terribly curious, says the Necromancer.

An example of a supernatural event:

I was 11 years old, and already used to the dead talking to me. One day I walked past a cemetery with my mother and I "picked up" a troubled war veteran's spirit. He told me all about Vietnam from his perspective, including how angry he was that his wife had chosen a gravestone that had her name already placed next to his. As his energy became more intense I began to cry for no reason, which angered my mother. When she hit me, I heard machine gun fire and saw southeast asian palm trees. I ran into the graveyard blindly, and actually found the grave the dead man was speaking of. When I fell onto the plot, I was taken over by the ghost who cried and cried though my mouth, "Why, why my love.... why don't you go on instead of waiting to die? I need you to move on! Why is your name here, foretelling your death? Why? why?" I beat the ground with my fists, completely unable to console the spirit that had led me here. By the time my mother found me, I was calm again, and the soldier's spirit was less angry. I told her some crap about missing my grandfather or something so she wouldn't fear me. It took a few days to purify the energy, but I helped that soldier find his release and now still frequent that cemetery to make contact with unrested spirits in order to help them.

Is my hobby a grown up version of make believe, or perhaps a disorder caused by stress? Are the spirits I encounter really just distorted representations of my personal desire for a meaningful existence? Lay it on me, I want to hear your opinion. You can upset me more than the shrinks that tried to kill my brain!!! hahahaha

[shadowx]

I believe where there is credibility we can assume it really happened, in your account above i would find it hard to believe an 11 year old would have a clear image of what the Vietnam war was like, i would also find it hard to believe that an 11 year old would randomly find a soldiers grave upon which a living persons name was also etched and then recount an imagined story. So i believe your account is mostly accurate.

However... All of us should always consider the "am i mad" option. Not eveyone who hears a voice in their head is a psychic, not everyone who thinks they can manipulate energy is a witch/spellcaster/energy worker etc... so we need to keep a grip on "reality" if such a thing exists or else we are simply fools.

If someone can provide evidence, or even bias for a story to be true, for example having facts confirmed and thinking about mundane ways such information could have been subconsciously picked up, is a good way of "proving" at least to ourselves that the event or knowledge is genuine. It is so easy to fit an event into life and make it seem real purely because it isnt questioned thoroughly. A book falls from a shelf, it happens to be your favorite book. Is it a friendly spirit suggesting they too like the book, or that they know it is your favorite? No, the window is open and since it is your favorite book it is the one book out of the few on the shelf that has been recently replaced, and hence is nearer the edge and perhaps resting unevenly.

Of course.... If the book is far back on the shelf and there are no sources of disturbance like wind and it is clear that a force is needed to move the weight closer to the edge of the shelf for it to fall... well then we have a situation

[Serendipity]

A little judgmental don’t you think Krystal Raven? To say things like, “I also believe all skeptics have the right to live in their self-created darkness...” or to say that just because “offended by those who believe unusual spiritual events are based on inner perception rather than actual exterior forces.”

And why do we assume that the grave you fell on belonged to a soldier who died in Vietnam and that his wife survived him and had her name put on the stone at the time it was set for him? I’m not saying it didn’t happen, I’m just saying that just because that is the way you remember it doesn’t mean that was the way it was.

I personally don’t believe in “supernatural” but I do respect your right to believe in it.

Just because I don’t believe in the supernatural that doesn’t mean that I believe that humanity has all the answers to everything all the time. I’m more than willing to admit that there are things that exist beyond our current understanding of the universe and the things in it. But, I do need more that somebody just saying that they believe in something to cause me to believe in it.

Take all the people who believe in UFO abductions because they’ve had the experience of waking up and being unable to move and seeing a bright light and hearing sounds they couldn’t explain. That is a fairly well know phenomena that has a couple of different causes, none of which have anything to do with aliens.

When we see or experience something we don’t understand we’re better served by just admitting it is something currently beyond our level of understanding than trying to invent explanations that have no basis in reality.

Again, I know there are people who feel very differently from the way I do and that’s fine, I completely respect their right to have their own opinion, but this is a forum for all of us to express our different ideas and I wanted to express my thoughts on this topic. Hopefully without slamming those people who feel differently than I do since belittling people seldom facilitates communication and understanding. I don’t “live in darkness” and I’m not being “offensive” just because I have an opinion that is different from someone else’s.

[JuniperBerry]

So. Some of us have acquired our personal beliefs based on actual events in our lives that put us in contact with paranormal and/or supernatural events. Others of us have reached our present conclusions on reality based on an inner spiritual quest or the practical desire for knowledge. I am, of course, offended by those who believe unusual spiritual events are based on inner perception rather than actual exterior forces, because what I have seen/heard/felt/tasted/battled/known extends far beyond the power of my rather large imagination. Of course, I also believe all skeptics have the right to live in their self-created darkness. My question is, how do things work for you? Do you believe in the unseen world as you have experienced it? Or do you believe the unseen world is simply the subconscious mind? Terribly curious, says the Necromancer.

I think both are valid. I've had UPG experiences that feel 'right' to me, and whether they can be explained away mundanely or not, isn't the issue. It's whatever that experienced inspired in me to think differently or to perceive things differently. To me it's like having chocolate cake or a chocolate bar. One might tatse better then the other, one might come from a better more respectable chef, but it's that taste of chocolate and the curiosity to have more based from that taste that matters.

An example of a supernatural event:

I was 11 years old, and already used to the dead talking to me. One day I walked past a cemetery with my mother and I "picked up" a troubled war veteran's spirit. He told me all about Vietnam from his perspective, including how angry he was that his wife had chosen a gravestone that had her name already placed next to his. As his energy became more intense I began to cry for no reason, which angered my mother. When she hit me, I heard machine gun fire and saw southeast asian palm trees. I ran into the graveyard blindly, and actually found the grave the dead man was speaking of. When I fell onto the plot, I was taken over by the ghost who cried and cried though my mouth, "Why, why my love.... why don't you go on instead of waiting to die? I need you to move on! Why is your name here, foretelling your death? Why? why?" I beat the ground with my fists, completely unable to console the spirit that had led me here. By the time my mother found me, I was calm again, and the soldier's spirit was less angry. I told her some crap about missing my grandfather or something so she wouldn't fear me. It took a few days to purify the energy, but I helped that soldier find his release and now still frequent that cemetery to make contact with unrested spirits in order to help them.

For instance, even if this wasn't an actual event, and was sparked by your imagination, it reached you on a spiritual level that led you to the path your on. It had some inner meaning of value...regardless of the actual worth of the situation.

And that's what I would emphasize to everyone. Don't get caught up on the details of the event, whether they are true or not. Focus on what it inspired you to discover, follow every trial of curiousity stemming from that event. It coudl have been subconsious, it could have had a scientific meaning, it could have been truly supernatural...but it's meant to lead you somewhere, that's why it stuck out to you. It's not the end of the line.

You can upset me more than the shrinks that tried to kill my brain!!! hahahaha

TMI

[Traumwandlerin]

My belief is very self-centered around my subconcious. I don't mind people having there supernatural eyperience, there is nothing in my belief that contradicts supernatural experiences, I just don't care about them. Actually I had those experiences ^^ Like the one time I found out how someone had died in my appartment. Well, those things happen. Most of those things are probably really just "being mad" some are not. Normally I just go with thinking, they are imagined for whatever reason. But sometimes it's just true, like the story about my ghost. It's just, I really don't care much about, if those stories are true. And I don't seek out such experiences. I'm perfectly happy with being self-centered ^^

[)O( Krystal Raven )O(]

A little judgmental don’t you think Krystal Raven? To say things like, “I also believe all skeptics have the right to live in their self-created darkness...” or to say that just because “offended by those who believe unusual spiritual events are based on inner perception rather than actual exterior forces.”

***I was actually being a bit ironic, since skeptics believe those who have demonic/incomprehensible experiences choose to live in a self-created darkness. ****

And why do we assume that the grave you fell on belonged to a soldier who died in Vietnam and that his wife survived him and had her name put on the stone at the time it was set for him? I’m not saying it didn’t happen, I’m just saying that just because that is the way you remember it doesn’t mean that was the way it was.

***This is an interesting way to dismiss any possible experience as subjective and perhaps untrue. A dangerous tool and one I overused to hide my traumatic past experiences for a long time. Not saying it should be forever unused, but I find it uncaring at the least to take a childhood memory and subject it to possible oblivion at every turn, for any reason. ***

I personally don’t believe in “supernatural” but I do respect your right to believe in it.

***I wish everyone had half of your integrity behind this sentence. The world would be a truly better place. ***

Just because I don’t believe in the supernatural that doesn’t mean that I believe that humanity has all the answers to everything all the time. I’m more than willing to admit that there are things that exist beyond our current understanding of the universe and the things in it. But, I do need more that somebody just saying that they believe in something to cause me to believe in it.

***Personal experience is the only true validation when it comes to things that cannot be "proven" by conventional means. I believe there are Karmic and mystical reasons for people with innate abilities to remain untouched by supernatural phenomena... for example... I often wish I could be like you.... simply to dismiss the images that haunt me forever.....

Take all the people who believe in UFO abductions because they’ve had the experience of waking up and being unable to move and seeing a bright light and hearing sounds they couldn’t explain. That is a fairly well know phenomena that has a couple of different causes, none of which have anything to do with aliens.

***I don't accept this as a reason to dismiss all proof that aliens could have or are currently visiting our world............ but I do understand that this is a common occurrence, just like mistaking a dirty dog for a chupacabra, ***

When we see or experience something we don’t understand we’re better served by just admitting it is something currently beyond our level of understanding than trying to invent explanations that have no basis in reality.

***I agree with this completely. So completely in fact I'd be in the loony bin if I didn't use this as a guide for my behavior. ***

Again, I know there are people who feel very differently from the way I do and that’s fine, I completely respect their right to have their own opinion, but this is a forum for all of us to express our different ideas and I wanted to express my thoughts on this topic. Hopefully without slamming those people who feel differently than I do since belittling people seldom facilitates communication and understanding. I don’t “live in darkness” and I’m not being “offensive” just because I have an opinion that is different from someone else’s.

***I'm truly sorry if you felt "slammed" by my comments or opinion. I have many, many experiences involving the paranormal and have suffered greatly at the hands of those who are all too eager to dismiss/belittle my every statement. Also, you don't have to be intentionally offensive to hurt someone's feelings. I don't believe for a moment that you are mean-spirited or out to belittle others. ***

[Starwitch Stone]

I don't believe for a moment that you are mean-spirited or out to belittle others.

I'm not so sure. Not saying she was belittling you intentionally, but it sounded condescending to me. Your post was fine and there was really no need to speak to you like you were a child.

StarWitch

[)O( Krystal Raven )O(]

I appreciate that quite a lot, StarWitch.... this forum has been really healing for me in regard to being able to represent my personal beliefs/experience without being condescended to, for the most part! I am still rather astonished by how all of this "went down", so to speak.... c'est la vie.

[JuniperBerry]

I hate to sound self-absorbed, but I'm kinda paranoid that the recent dissension on the board is partly my fault. I just feel like since I'm being told my style is a bit different, that it's... not rubbing off on people, per se...but maybe making them more defensive? I hope that's not the case.