Envoking trust

[shiksagoddess]

I need some guidance to help me with a trust issue I have with my boyfriend. I have always had friends that are men, that are just that friends, but my boyfriend does not understand this, he is oldschool Jewish. I don't want to give him up but I will not give up something that is also a part of me. I wonder if anyone has anything that has worked for them to invoke trust. I have never given him any reason not to trust me and never will, but words do not seem to be enough, does anyone have anything?

[Firebird]

Trust is something that should be common ground, if the boyfriend won't let you be who you are... or tries to regulate who you see, or what you do, then I would consider hanging up the hat on the relationship.

sorry, I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear.
Blessings, Firebird

[-Dark-Moon-]

Having been in relationships where my values were different to my partners, I found it very hard and it really was a constant source of clashes.

I'm much happier with someone who is more of a match in terms of values, spiritual beliefs, goals, and lifestyle. It's just easier.

When people seek to control you because they can't gel with your lifestyle, (as an immature defense to their own insecurities or projections of how they think your life 'should' be), I see that as a red flag, and like Firebird, would consider ending the relationship if no compromise was reached. Always stand your ground with issues of personal identity, otherwise you can find that you are in a box, trapped, having compromised everything and the box gets smaller and smaller...

Alternatively if you are prepared to sacrifice some things ... And accept the risks... That is fine, and I wish you all the best.

Unless they are a controlling psychopath, or utterly damaged, most people can learn to trust over time if you're always honest and act with integrity. Eventually they just understand your character. To choose this option, you must love the person unconditionally, understand them, and give them time to deal with their weaknesses, while standing firm that this is their issue not yours. If you're the flirty type, well, you may just be making a rod for your own back.

If its really who you are, why fear anything?

I would ask him, if these are your values, then why did you choose me? Do you really love me for me, or were you hoping to change me later, once we were together? If someone really loves you, they will love you the way you are.

Let me give you an example, I love to snowboard. A couple years ago there was a major storm I wanted to ride in another country. Although I went overseas by myself a lot prior to meeting him, It was the first time since we had been together than i was leaving him at home. I had been on trips but always with girlfriends. Anyway, panic set in. He seemed petrified. He had been cheated on by other women 3 times before. well, he raised holy hell. What was I doing roaming around the countryside, without him? Why? Why would I need to do this? What was I trying to do here? Didn't I love him? He wailed, bitched, moaned, got mad, cried, got mad again.... You get the picture. At one point he was downright mean. I refused to give in to this emotional terrorism, I reassured him, grabbed my board, and left. He was still mad for a month afterwards, and periodically pouted, saying 'how can I abandon him like that!' I just maintained inner lotus and calmly reassured him each time that it was about the storm, and that I'd chased storms for long before I met him and, if he didn't let me continue, would chase them long after I left him. I made it clear that this was not ever going to be his choice. Eventually, after he realised that things were ok and nothing happened and nothing would ever happen, he quit worrying about it and hasn't kicked up a stink since.

I know this is an extreme example, .... It's just a question of what you want to invest and whether you can be bothered putting up with it, weathering the real storm, so to speak. In his case, he has a ton of other qualities that made up for this episode, and doesnt usually act like a childish needy fruitcake. Even when he acted that way, I said I felt sorry for him that he was going through such a tough time over having a snowboarding girlfriend and I hoped he would feel better soon. By not being drawn into the drama, you can stand your ground as a self empowered, independent, strong woman and the other person will eventually get the picture.

The other side is that I have promised him in return he can go motorbike riding with his mates anytime. To be honest, I wish he'd go more, and get out of the damn house lol.....

Truce, and compromise were reached, but I demonstrated to him that I am a trustworthy person, and while I'm devoted to him completely, I still maintain control of my own life. Compromise does not equal 'goodness'... If you invest in maintaining your independence in relationships you will never lose your way.

Choose ur own adventure, Hun ! Best of luck

[Kassandra]

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Geez, MissMollimizz is right. A women-only forum sure would be nice at a time like this, cause I know what I'm about to write could be taken the wrong way by somebody...eh, since when has that ever stopped me?


I Can Fix It ...er, Him

Firstly, shiksagoddess, thank you for not asking for "a spell that will make him trust me," but instead, trying to deal with this like a mature adult (long story, but basically, if someone does do energy work of a magical kind, they still need to do the mundane footwork involved in solving a problem --some folks don't realize that, only look for quick fixes). Anyway, my opinion is you can do all the evoking you want in this situation, but if a guy is insecure, it will override all your best efforts. He has to want to change himself. You can't change what's in a person's mind and heart. Evoke means to bring out something that's already there. If "trust" isn't there in the first place, you can't evoke it.


For some odd reason, a lot of women have this fatal "I Can Fix Him if I Just..." script going on in their heads when it comes to men:
If I just stay home instead of working (or vice versa) that will fix him and he will trust me.
If I just drop one (or all) of my friends...
If I just stop wearing these clothes...
If I just stop doing this hobby...

The sad list goes on and on.


Giving in will feed the flame of his neediness, and never allow him the opportunity to develop an ability to trust. It will merely reinforce the irrational monsters already inside his head, and you don't want to feed those nasty little things. You say he's "old school Jewish," but a man of any religion, race, nationality, size, shape, or age group could have the same insecurity problem. And while some groups tend to encourage a macho attitude moreso than others, it always boils down to what beliefs about life and love an individual man has chosen to embrace, and how he acts upon those beliefs. So, don't give him that "he's old school Jewish" "out" for his behavior. If it's not working for you, then there's no excuse for it, and it either needs to change, or he needs to go. Simple.





Don't be intimidated by their bark. A very macho
friend of mine confided to me once that the only
thing he fears is women. "I just never know what
they want. But once I know, then I'm OK." What
he meant was he needed to be trained. Guys are
like dogs, they understand power, not weakness.
Weakness freaks them out. Don't be weak.




Men Are from Mars ...Naw, They're Just Dogs from Earth

If you drop all your guy friends, what I think will happen is this guy will lose respect for you. He might not say those words, and may not even realize he's done it. In fact, he'll seem happy at first that you've done this "out of love for him." But I find that men are like dogs in that they understand "Alpha" behavior. If they make a demand you don't agree with, but you hold your ground in a way that is respectful toward them, then they will return that respect. But if they make a demand you don't agree with, and you put your tail between your legs and start whimpering and crying, they instinctively won't respect you anymore, and will piss on you. I think they don't try to be that way, it's just how many of the are hardwired, a survival instinct, perhaps.

What I mean by they'll "piss on you" is, firstly, dogs are hardwired to piss to "mark their territory." An insecure man, like the guy you're involved with right now, will look around for any available opportunities within his "environment" in which to project all his insecurities ...i.e., to "piss." He needs to mark his manhood somehow. This kind of behavior is cathartic for people like that (they are energy vampires). So, if you, by your lack of assertiveness, and by your blind acquiescence to his demands, send him the message that you're OK with allowing your life to be that environment for him, then he will thank you, and proceed to piss all over your life, accordingly. In contract law, "acquiescence" means "words signifying consent to the terms of an offer (thereby creating a contract)." In love, as in all relationships, we create contracts ...and even non-verbal, "understood" ones are binding.




An Incredible, Shrinking Life...Yours?

Always stand your ground with issues of personal identity, otherwise you can find that you are in a box, trapped, having compromised everything and the box gets smaller and smaller...

For you, what that may well look like is this: Today it begins with, "Get rid of your male friends, I don't like you having them." So you do that, and think you've fixed the problem. But you didn't, for not long after that, it becomes, "Your dresses are too short, and you're too flirty." Then it will be, "You're too chummy with your boss at work; I want you to quit that job, right now." You see, this won't stop. These are the little monsters in his head I mentioned earlier --unchecked, they'll keep popping up here, popping up there, and you will be feeding them each time. Before you know it, you won't have a life anymore, just a controlling psycho for a boyfriend (or god-forbid, husband). This fate could be avoided.

This is not just about his inability to trust. This is also about your need to learn to stand up for yourself. Until you grow a pair, you're going to keep getting involved with other guys just like this, again and again. The same guy will keep popping up in your life, with a different name each time.

I speak from experience, and I now have a pair. I grew them myself. It looks awkward in clothes. They get smelly and itchy sometimes. But, keeping them is a sacrifice I'm willing to make for my self-respect and independence.
jk





Never Underestimate the Power of a Night in the Doghouse

Good news: most (not all) men, like dogs, can be trained! And the way to train them is, again, stand your ground, but be fair and nice in the process, like Dark Moon explained in her example:

I just maintained inner lotus and calmly...made it clear that this was not ever going to be his choice...I felt sorry for him that he was going through such a tough time over having a snowboarding girlfriend and I hoped he would feel better soon... I have promised him in return he can go motorbike riding with his mates anytime.

She kept it sweet. She compromised, as well. But she didn't, for one second, back down. That's the way to house-train a dog, to instruct them to keep that territory-marking behavior "out there" and not bring it into your "home" (your life). Dogs are loyal. They enjoy pleasing us, and like to be trained. They like to be told where the boundaries are. Men are the same way. Give him a nice doggy treat when he behaves. But make it very clear just how cold and lonely that dog house out there can get, when he doesn't. That Cesar dog trainer guy, the one with the show, he always says something like it's not the dogs he's really training, it's the humans --they never know what they're doing.

Believe me, a night or two in the doghouse, a real threat that he will be replaced, and he'll get the message. I know Dark Moon's example is real because I've had to do the same thing myself. Note that she didn't change her guy, she didn't "evoke" anything (because he had been cheated on before, he had no trust to evoke from the start). What happened is he had to create trust within himself. This was new for him, but probably quite healing, too. Then, he had to change his words and behavior to reflect that trust. He valued her, and their relationship, enough to do these things. Time will tell whether you could say the same about your guy.

And by the way, my guy friends taught me these things --that men need to be trained. Prior to that, I didn't know any better. So, don't give up your guy friends. They're so valuable in teaching us about how the other side thinks! lol



In all fairness, I must say: when they know their boundaries and
understand what's important to you, men can be loyal, loving and
supportive. At the end of the day, like anybody else, they just
want to do the right thing, to love and be loved.




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[Zale]

Coming from a male perspective. Myself I do not mind if my lady has male friends. All I ask is that she is open and transparent as I am with her. for us guys sometimes it isn't our trust with the ladies. I cannot speak for all males. However, I want my relationship respected by both parties. As I would respect my relationship. Trust should be earned not given frivolously. That is how I feel a strong good relationship should work.

[Zale]

A man that asks you to.give up your friends won't last. You will.end up resenting him and won't fix the problem. Just be open and respectful too each other.

[-Dark-Moon-]

Haha love the pics, Kassandra.

Thanks for reminding me to invest in doggy treats !

Brings back my mothers comments - occasionally I would ring her about relationship issues ... Being the bastion of pragmatism that she is ... She would say 'well why haven't you trained him yet !!!?'. Hehe.

Good on you Zale for entering the Snake pit ! What you say about resentment really is true... Sometimes if you compromise everything - you don't just resent them, you may end up actually hating them. And once that damage is done, it's hard to undo.

You're right Kassandra, that process overall was very healing for him. He really did rewrite the script a little, and can laugh about it now. I'm happy to work through stuff with people if they can accept responsibility for their own stuff ... I'm also happy to leave and come back later when they have realized that their tantie isn't working.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that learned this the hard way

[Kassandra]

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Zale, thanks for your input on this topic. Glad you have such an equanimous outlook on relationships.

And I just want to say to all, for the record, that women can be just as bad --if not worse-- than men, when it comes to the kind of stifling jealousy the OP mentions. I knew of this one lady who was jealous and constantly suspicious of her (extremely good-looking) boyfriend, and destroyed all this valuable things and threw them all in their front yard. Well, later her family had an intervention and made her go into rehab. We're all flawed. Also, I want to make it clear that I am not calling men dogs. This was an analogy my male friends HAVE humorously used to explain male behavior to me in the past, so I only use it here in good humor, as well.
There are many good men out there, and the world is a better place with all of them in it. :woot:

DarkMoon, I think personal relationships are the fastest (albeit most difficult) way for us to work out and resolve our karmic issues, and clean the slate. btw, I really liked yours and the others' comments on that thread about past lives, you posted on the other day. Meant to post, but didn't (sometimes I don't post, but I'm always reading). It was very insightful into the way the whole past lives thing works. Glad you have such a good grasp on such an elusive, complicated (for many) concept. Glad you're here.



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[Zale]

Everyone is jealous to a point. I TRY to deal with mine. But like I said it comes down to full disclosure and transparency. If you have to hide something than you know its something that will hurt your partners feelings. None are perfect and im not judging. But we need to try and remember our rede. "An if it harm none do what thou wilt".

[shiksagoddess]

Thank you so much for all of your input. I think sometimes I ignore the voice in my head that would give out the same advice to a friend!!! It just takes hearing it from others to ring true and sink in. I love the person I've grown into including the friendships I have developed and I should never have to consider for a moment changing that!!!

[Kassandra]

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I love the person I've grown into including the friendships I have developed and I should never have to consider for a moment changing that!!!

:woot: Here, here, my friend.



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[Zale]

I'm glad to hear that you were able too gain clarity

Blessed be,
Zale

[AzaleaMoon]

Sometimes the lack of trust is the result of a past "trauma or loss" He would have to find out what the trigger is and address the issue before "he can see you and trust you.. in the manner that you deserve.
Just always be honest and forgive yourself because you are not the one with the problem.