baphomet.

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Ethereal_Crow

baphomet.

Post by Ethereal_Crow »

ive heard of baphomet the goat headed god/godess. does this deity have anything to do with the wiccan relgion? i dont exactly understand where this deity originated from and why. could someone explain? the diety seems to border line with the satanic depiction of the goat of mendez.

Eretik
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Post by Eretik »

'Baphomet' is a construct which was used as a means of persecution of the Knights Templar.The confusion with 'The Ram of Mendes' arises from later Occultism.Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet

Sobek
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Post by Sobek »

I love baphomet imagery ... information behind it is rather "iffy" if you ask me

Eretik
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Post by Eretik »

This is a 'snip' from the page on Mendes,in Wiki.Egyptian religion is complex and it's not my home ground,[no surprise there] how accurate is it Shaun?. I always find the 'goat' as representation of Satanism, to be irritating.Another Christian misnomer and depiction,anything Pan like or wild gets tarred as 'Old Nick',anything with horns or that is hermaphroditic,is bad.Grrrr.Herodotus being Greek describes the God as Zeus here,again this is not my area,but The Greeks did influence and learn from Egypt.This is not about evil or Satanism.Satanism is not about reverse Christianity either. [except for the disgruntled teen 'I'm so rebellious' phase,which sees them reverse Christian ethics for shock value:this exists,but is not taken seriously other than by shady groups such as JOS,but that is another discussion altogether.lol]




Religion
The chief deities of Mendes were the ram deity Banebdjedet (lit. Ba of the Lord of Djedet), who was the Ba of Osiris, and his consort, the fish goddess Hatmehit. With their child Har-pa-khered ("Horus the Child"), they formed the triad of Mendes.

The ram deity of Mendes was described by Herodotus in his History (Book II, 42)[Robin Waterfield translation] as being represented with the head and fleece of a goat: “...whereas anyone with a sanctuary of Mendes or who comes from the province of Mendes, will have nothing to do with (sacrificing) goats, but uses sheep as his sacrificial animals... They say that Heracles’ overriding desire was to see Zeus, but Zeus was refusing to let him do so. Eventually, as a result of Heracles’ pleading, Zeus came up with a plan. He skinned a ram and cut off his head, then he held the head in front of himself, wore the fleece, and showed himself to Heracles like that. That is why the Egyptian statues of Zeus have a ram’s head, is why rams are sacred to the Thebans, and they do not use them as sacrificial animals. However there is just one day of the year--the day of the festival of Zeus--when they chop up a single ram, skin it, dress the statue of Zeus in the way mentioned, and then bring the statue of Heracles up close to the statue of Zeus. Then everyone around the sanctuary mourns the death of the ram and finally they bury it in a sacred tomb.”

Presumably following Herodotus' description, the occultist Eliphas Levi in his Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie (1855) called his goat-headed conception of Baphomet the "Baphomet of Mendes", thus popularizing and perpetuating this incorrect attribution, which has given rise to a flood of spurious connections, such as "The Goat of Mendes" by the blackened death metal band Akercocke.

Sobek
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Post by Sobek »

Satanism, Baphomet, Banebdjedet and Hatmehyt are unrelated. We can link back and connect dots but mostly, we're just clutching at straws.

Banebdjedet and Hatmehyt were a couple but I've never come across this "triad" thing or they being the parents to Horus ... those details are quite sketchy from my knowledge. I could be wrong, But I would think that is little to no more than Banebdjedet and Hatmehyt's cult centre of Mendes trying to make their local deity more important in the cosmic ranks. That happened quite a bit in ancient Egyptian religion. It becomes even more foggy when we have Greek influences in Egypt and Egyptian influences of the Greeks ... Makes things so complicated because by the end of it all, even the greeks had cults based on Egyptian Deity(Isis was a particular favourite for this)

But you touch on a very important point Geri. I think it matters for naught what Baphomet may have been originally ... It seems the only associations she has these days are either faslely adopted by satanics or misconceptionalised by. Or more importantly, How Eliphas Levi and Aliester Crowley interpret her. Being 5am I think we can forgive little mistakes :P

hedge*
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Post by hedge* »

Gerald Gardener the founder of Wicca incorporated elements from English folklore and contemporary influences such as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
Founders of the Golden Dawn were members of the Freemasons. The Freemasons derived from the Knights Templar.....

Baphomet represents the resolution of opposing principles. If you look at the classic Levi illustration you'll see the following characteristics:

Half Demon, half Angel
Half Man, half Woman
Half Human, half Beast
One hand pointed at the Heavens, One at the Earth
One hand pointed at Severity, the other at Mercy


So to answer your question Etheral Crow I would say as a representation of the aspects of Baphomet, he/she/it makes a nice deity for Wicca - like a westernised yin yang if you want.

AkanaAnash
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Post by AkanaAnash »

Hi gyz,

Sorry but I'll have to disagree. I believe that the traditional representations of the Baphomet iconography are very, very clearly demonization of Islam.

Change the "B" to an "M" and you get the Anglicized version of Mohammed..."Ma-hamet"

The goat symbology references the "azrael" (the unclean spirit of the desert to whom the early Jews sacrificed)...as in...they ritually put all their "sins" into a live goat and sent the goat out into the desert to die so the goat becomes the symbol of evil in post-Constantin' christianity.

Many Satan worshipers (note: not Satanists) choose to use this as the representation of their anti-god, and I figure, if they want to worship Goat-Spirit, more power to them. but it's unfortunate that many of these folx don't understand their symbol is simply church propoganda against Muslims.

I disagree that the Baphomet has any concordance with Ancient Egypt.

The Kemetans, in fact, viewed the goat (although I'll apologize for their...uhm...shall we say Elitism?) as a lesser being, not worthy to be worshiped because only the nomads and the poor used or had any contact with it.

The Ram, however, much more princely...as it were.

:)


Thet
"The Prince Of Darkness is a gentleman"
W. Shakespeare

hedge*
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Post by hedge* »

hmmmmmmmm............................interesting thought Thet.

Incidently the goat example you gave is the Jewish day of atonement Yom Kipper and is often used to explain the origins of the word scapegoat.

Completely off topic I apologise, but I thought it interesting.

AkanaAnash
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Post by AkanaAnash »

Hi Hedge,

I'm surprised no one mentioned it, I thought that little tidbit
was common knowledge?! :shock: :o :D

Much in the same way that the English transliteration of Daniels
description of the Antichrist is that he will follow "a god of forces"
(which is much mystery for literalists) but that the Latin Vulgate
"deum autem Maozim in loco suo" is capitalized, overly hinting
that the true translation is "god of the Muslims"

(Actually I have to go with the literalists...the mideval church needed to
depict this supposed "return of Mohammed" as Antichrist, to further
undermine the efforts of Islam)

No no, I feel your mentioning Yom Kippur/scapegoat
is still on topic...the Baphomet IS a goat icon afterall!

I was throwing some cards this morning and they taught
that I should compliment you on your wisdom.

Go figure...
"The Prince Of Darkness is a gentleman"
W. Shakespeare

Mannun

Post by Mannun »

I believe Baphomet to be a symbol of Balance as it is a half of everything and holds representation of the 5 Elements which in Wicca make up creation of all. To me it is the One Creative force that is ultimately broken down into God and Goddess.

AkanaAnash
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Post by AkanaAnash »

Careful Mannum,

You might get your witches membership card taken away for that...teehee :)
"The Prince Of Darkness is a gentleman"
W. Shakespeare

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