Kupala - inventing deities?

[Neila]

According to Wikipedia, "Kupala (Belarusian Купала, Russian Купала, Купало, Polish Kupała, Ukrainian Купала, Купало/Купайло) is a traditional goddess in Slavic mythology". Her celebration is supposed to have been replaced by the celebration of Ivan Kupala, John the Baptist, the christian saint. However, the main sources I have for her are neopagan, not reliable historical or mythological websites. For example according to a russian studies school, "Many holidays were associated with a particular god and many folklorists have discerned that Kupala was held in honor of a god of vegetation called Kupala (sometimes Kupalo). Others, however, have stated that the holiday had little to do with any god and that the name simply refers to the event. "Kupala" loosely translates to "bathed" and ritual bathing is a major part of the holiday observances." (http://www.sras.org/russian_mythology) However, blogs like this: https://journeyingtothegoddess.wordpres ... ss-kupala/ have whole articles about her. So, maybe she's mostly "invented" by neopagans. At first I thought that these articles misinform people and that she's not a "true" goddess, since the information on her seems arbitrary. But then... why is it bad to "invent" a deity? After all, given that all deities are supposedly forms of a Great Divine, and also that even in ancient times the deities were influenced by one another, the shapes everyone gives to their gods and goddesses are determined by their own needs and cultural environment. I was even contemplating describing and naming a "new" god(dess) by myself.

I'd appreciate your opinions, both about Kupala (are there any Slavs here?) and about the inventing-gods thing.

[Vesca]

The problem with "legitimate" sources for Slavic folklore is that none of it was written down until a couple centuries ago, and those were written down by Christian scholars who took it from oral sources and put their own twist on it. Beyond that, a lot of the lore is based on things like drawings, traditions that clearly hold some legacy characteristics from pre-christianization, and the transfixing of Saint's faces over previously pagan entities.

I'm going to work soon, but I'll get back to you about Kupalo. I don't follow the Russian path, but there are a lot of crossovers.

Long story short, Kupalo is supposedly a legitimately worshiped deity and where there's smoke (festivals)there's generally a source for it. A few of the deities had their genders switched about (kupalo/Kupala; Lado/Lada). Slavic folklore requires a fair bit of digging.

Depending on your particular interest and how far back, or to what era, you're interested in, I could possibly point you in the right direction for some sources.

[Neila]

It sounds a lot more complicated and more interesting than I expected.
If you know something more, I'm all ears.
Now, on the "how far back" etc, I have no idea...

[Vesca]

Apologies for the late response, my weekend work schedule is a nightmare.

So here's what I was able to dig out of my notes:

In some medieval Russian sermons and letters, Kupalo is mentioned, which basically gives you something of a time frame from which the name started appearing in written sources. Because it's mentioned along with several other deities, but not the deities that were part of Prince Vladimir's "official pantheon" (Perun, Khors, Dazhbog, Stribog, Simargl, Mokosh) it may point more towards a peasant following than a "mainstream" following.

It is believed that Kupalo was renamed to Ivan Kupalo, and then again to Saint John the Baptist (who is associated with June 24th).

Naturally, Kupalo's Day is celebrated on the longest day of the summer (the solstice, coinciding with John the Baptist's day) in the Ukraine and Belorussia.

Kupalo's Day can pretty much be summed up with bonfires and ritual purification and blessings by jumping through said bonfires, lighting the fires with a "new" fire (one created by friction, rather than having it transferred from a pre-existing flame), the creation of a scarecrow or other idol for celebratory purposes which is later ritually destroyed (burned, drowned, dismembered), the gathering of plants for spells (witches) or medicinal purposes, the Fire Fern's appearance, ritual bathing, and witch activity (spoiling).


Because there's not a lot of specific information floating around regarding Kupalo as a deity, some scholars belief that Kupalo and Koliada were cult figures (archetype spirits of agricultural holidays) rather than deities. Can't say I've done enough research on Kupalo/Kupalo to say for myself though.


If I could give you one reference point to try and dig out, it would be this book:
Russian Folk Belief by Linda Ivanits (9780873328890)

It's a little pricy (or at least it was), but you could possibly find it in a library. I picked up a torn and water-damaged copy for a really low price. But it's one of the best resourced books I've found in English that addresses the various deities, customs, holidays, spirits, and Christianization of Russia (there are mentions of other places too, but it's main focus is Russia).

It might be worth the hassle to dig into Saint John the Baptist. Saint Elijah became the new face for Perun and there are several striking similarities between their descriptions, enough so that it gives you a decent idea of the deity behind the Saint.

I hope that helped a bit. It might not be exactly what you're looking for, but maybe it'll give you a few ideas to run with.

[Seraphin]

So while Vesca is discussing about Kupala, I'm going to share my view about inventing Gods.

I believe that Deities can be born out of "human worship" alone. I believe that a community can change the image of an original Deity and create an entirely new Deity through sheer force of TRUST and FAITH over an extended period of time. I believe that there are Gods and Goddesses of the Old that are continuously being created anew, in all the otherworlds, where thoughts, actions, and experiences give rise to Deities of different kinds. Every version of worship or praise that we do I believe is an act of transformation in the spiritual world, which is sacred in itself. And this aspect of concentrated spirituality is the chief component of that which becomes a new Deity.

More precisely, the person who performs his own system of beliefs, creates own rules and standards on how to reach out to the higher worlds, develops own perception about how his God or Goddess looks like, and gives names to his Supreme Being according to his belief, in so doing, invents his own Deity or make an older Deity evolve or transform. Such Deity, however, connected in its essence to the man who created it, still lives, on the whole, in a different dimension of being. And it's in the otherworld that faith acquires substance, and, in turn, influences the worlds above.

This is the reason why I don't believe that the Christian God is the same deity as Yahweh (YHVH or YHWH) who is the God of the Jews, I do believe that He evolved from the earlier Yahweh and now exists as a Deity in His own right whose name is simply "God" or "Jehovah", exactly as the Christians view him.

[Neila]

Vesca: Thank you, maybe I'll look at the university library too, not only for Kupalo but for slavic paganism in general. In Greece we have a similar custom, with bonfires etc for st John, so it will be interesting to do a bit of research on its origins, too.
Seraphin, I think I agree, but I'll read it more carefully when I have time.

[Kat]

to say an opinion about inventing deities...isn't this what we always do anyway, no matter what we claim our religion to be? what science can't explain yet, we attribute it to a ''god'', like they had totems, and later called devine whoever created fire instantly e.g. with a match or with a lighter instead of creating fire by rubbing rocks /wood.
so I believe we always make gods from whatever science can't yet achieve. I understand this belief of mine seems shocking to most. doesn't the collective unconscious have deity as an archetype? maybe Jung called it Animus and Anima.

[Xiao Rong]

doesn't the collective unconscious have deity as an archetype? maybe Jung called it Animus and Anima.

Nope, pretty certain Animus and Anima are not that. Jung said that every woman has an Animus (male aspect), and every man an Anima (female aspect). They relate more to our inner world than to the outer world.

[Vesca]

Vesca: Thank you, maybe I'll look at the university library too, not only for Kupalo but for slavic paganism in general. In Greece we have a similar custom, with bonfires etc for st John, so it will be interesting to do a bit of research on its origins, too.
Seraphin, I think I agree, but I'll read it more carefully when I have time.

Glad to help. I didn't know Greece had a similar custom, that is intriguing. I can get a bit obsessive when it comes to Slavic history and folklore.

[YanaKhan]

In western Slavic tradition, it is believed that Kupalo is called Enyo and on his day, herbs are gathered and divination done. And whatever you dream about the night before Enyovden (the day of Enyo) is prophetic.
In some regions, a little girl (6 - 7 years old) is dressed as a bride - with white robe, red veil and red dress and an older girl from the village carries her around all day. After that, she is placed before flower wreaths the other girls have made the night before and takes them one by one while the others say what man the girl who made the wreath will marry. Then they wash her face and take her back to her mother. The little girl is called Enyova bulya (Enyo's bride).
So, anyway, my point was that I believe Kupalo was pretty real and worshiped.