2012, spritual unbalance, and miscalculations

[Traumwandlerin]

Yeah, gamma bursts are light, too. But with gravitation no one actually knows. We postulated the graviton as the particle of the gravitation, but it's not found yet. Does it have a mass? Is it affected by gravitation? Does it selfinterference? Or is ist something else? Something of the structure of the universe itself? Of the four forces in the universe, gravitation is the most mystical one. I would doubt that gravitation itself is bended by gravitational lenses, but really I don't know, since it's only theoretical so far and no theory was proven at any rate.

[shadowx]

Ah i see, you meant that gravity couldnt (in theory) be bent by a gravitational lens, i thought you meant a gamma ray burst

Gravity is a bit of a mystery, but assuming the measurements and theories are right it's also proof that extra dimensions exist which is always nice from a spiritual point of view!

[Wishes]

hmm...

I don't think any of it is really true...


I just always thought it was the gods/goddesses, or as some believe, the energy is being thoroughly cleansed so the world as we know it would be completely different as there would be little or no negative energy lingering about.

To me it makes more sense than a blackhole or a sunflare...

[Traumwandlerin]

Yup, I would say so, when you have some spiritual theory don't try to explain or back up it with science. People will only come along and point out how wrong everything is Just stand to yourself and say "I have no clue how this could look like in this world, but on the astral level it would look like this". Stay were you feel safe and know what you are talking about.


Just reminds me on a dream I had, where for whatever reason electricity and science stopped working but magic was overly responsive. All the keepers of the magic (as us witches and pagans) were able to keep the world spinning (in a sense of help people to survive) and all the scientist became the new keepers to remain this knowledge and ability to when the world turns around again.

I don't believe in this dream but it was intense and really beautiful with lots of details. And I would miss the internets soooooo much :'( How should I talk to others? Telepathically? I seriously wuld go crazy ^^

[shadowx]

I just always thought it was the gods/goddesses

But why? What have they got to change? What is so special about this date? How is it going to happen? When?

Considering i dont believe in any gods or goddesses i see no merit in that idea, but if you can give some good theories then we can discuss it!

[Traumwandlerin]

shadowx, are you always the analyzing type? How do you connect with your subconcious or energies? How do you enter trance? Analyzing seriously hinders many magical works. Just wondering. I wouldn't like to "discuss" my spiritual believes like I would discuss science. Science is something where you always try to proof the other one is wrong and exactly show him why. But spirituality works on a different level and analyzing seriously hinders most things here. Just try not to deconstruct the beliefs of others, even if you find them ridiculous (Just felt how you were overenthusiastically with joy of deconstructing science and tried to deconstruct another theory ^^)

[shadowx]

But what is the point of not analysing, then we blindly accept everything we hear. Every little thing become the paranormal when in fact it wasnt and then we live a lie.

I cant disprove the idea of some almighty being(s) wiping clean the energies of the universe but why december 12th? Surely, as the pagan wheel goes, october 31st would be best? Or even the solstice itself on the 21st?

2012 has snowball into this "everybody says we are all going to die, i dont want to be left out so i will just agree and yet when the day comes and goes i will pretend that it was just the beginning and i am still right or i will just deny it all and say i never believed" and i cant stand it!!

2012 drives me mad!

[Traumwandlerin]

I don't see all the people messing around about 2012. It's just a handful of people who will mess around anyway and if there wasn't 2012 they will go on find another prophecy which fullfill their need of waiting for a great change or tragical/world ending event. And I just have fun here When you are going mad with theorys lik this, why don't you just skip them? Really, there are many places where no one talks about stuff like that or only in a humorous kind of way.

And there are other ways of thinking than analysing. One can make his own system without science and lot of paranormal stuff and still be a full member of society, your dream just have to fit the dreams the ones around you. It's important to accept your own system and think in it. And when someone thinks in spiritual thoughts, he has to think it all through in a spiritual way, don't mix systems halfways. Some systems will be destabilized by analysis since this is a deconstructive system and the subconsciouss works assoziative and symbolic. Like when you believe you are possesed by a demon, you can hold on to this thought and have to fight the demon, this will probably bring you in a dark and evil world where you have to learn to be brave and fight and all those stuff (when that's your dream) or you can visit a psychologist and let him deal with your childhood trauma of being sexually molested by the neighbour (if that's your dream). Both systems are equal, it just depends on what you are dreaming and it can be really harmful to destroy the dreams of others by entering it with methods of your own dream.

People who believe in 2012 or other things have a need for this believe. Let them figure out themselves what it is. This should not harm their reality, which is valid but just not understood by others. Maybe it's just their wish of the end of the world since they are unhappy or something huge will happen to them and the subconciouss transform it in the symbol of the world as your subconciouss is mostly quite selfish and sees himself as the whole world (at least mine does it a lot ^^). Or maybe they are right. But you wouldn't believe them anyways

I'm guilty of interfering with a lot of dreams though, since I just can't stand people talking about science without having a clue. Cause this leads to stuff like "take this medicine, it's scientifically proven" and people dying cause they trust science blindly. So I just have to make sure that only things are allowed to called science when it's actually science. I'm the science police

[shadowx]

There is a whole cult around 2012 though, people giving crackpot theories like planet X is going to kill us, aliens are going to kill us, the mayan gods are going to kill us and for what reason? There is no reason! Just a lot of mentally unstable people who want attention (IMHO)

None of them can answer my very simple questions, even "what makes the people before you wrong and stupid and what makes you so different and correct?"

No-one answers and anyone who has a theory and cant answer questions based on it is just a sheep who likes to be special.

I have no qualms about destroying dreams, people need to live in the real world, or at least have ideas that they can back up.

I dont mind people thinking what they want but then they come here and start whole threads threatening me with eternal damnation or extinction and these people cant even spell their own names let alone comprehend a believable scenario for the end of the world!

And then when nothing happens they will all chicken out and pretend they never said anything. That's why i have a little list of all the members here who are believers Come that day i will quote each and every one of them so they cant wriggle out of it! If they have the balls to stand up and say "Yup, i was wrong, i just went along with the crowd, my bad" then they will earn some respect and fair enough to them, but if they try to deny it all damn things are gonna get fun

[Traumwandlerin]

Why not just ignore it? What's in it for you? Do you feel kind of special showing others how wrong they are? Really, I mean, why are you interested in that anyway, I don't get it ^^

Since I'm a shadow worker I truly believe when you act this kind of obsessed there is something rooted in yourself. Like you want to believe inthe end of the world or you need to demean others to feel like an accepted person or you are afraid of being judged and therefore act out on those who are judging others (the last one was me, just in case you didn't notice )

[shadowx]

It makes me laugh. Simple as really, all those people who committed suicide the last time the world was supposed to end, PAH! Funny stuff, the stupidity of people amuses me, and i hate stupid people so its a win win situation!

[Traumwandlerin]

You are laughing at the pain of others? Well, I'm shocked. (Not that I wouldn't have guessed so far But not many people act this way and can say it with a straight face withoit feeling at least a bit ashamed). You surely are a terrible and insensible person. But I can laugh at you, since to reach that kind of insensibility you have to shut down various connections to your inner self, which surely hinders you in many ways and let you act stupid in the eyes of others.

No really, I'm not laughing. But who cares anyway. I'm just shocked of those things like insensibility cause I'm too empathetic and just never could understand how some won't understand the pain of others and feel pity and pain, too. I always feel offensed by such things

[Peregrine]

Wow. Just... Wow.

I can understand using whatever is expedient, but I can also understand how things can get out of hand and people then needlessly get hurt.

I get criticized for reading too much analysis or for too much reading (how dare I read more than one book), but it is what I do. I like making informed decisions. I know that my knowledge and experience are limited and that there are many angles to view things. That is why I prefer to "walk around it" so to speak before jumping into it. ("It" can be... insert your favorite example.)

In the end, I know it is my own experience at work but why not try to make an informed decision first? As long as I am honest with myself and listening to my own mind, heart, gut, etc... that is what matters. I expect others to do likewise.

Just a rheutorical question before I hit the "submit" button: Assuming 2012 is accurate and it is all going to happen, what would be the point of trying to enlighten me about it now? If we are about to be wiped out into extinction, what is the point of creating terror during my last breathing moments? I cannot afford a place on one of those giant arks anyway.

It's like the dag-blasted Calvinists waving an old book in my face and telling me what a pissy, nasty SOB God is as he created many but predestined only a few to be saved. The chosen few are always, suprise suprise, themselves but everyone else is screwed for eternity. Everyone else will suffer in eternal hellfire because we are all "sinners in the hands of an angry god." Assuming it is true which I highly doubt, what is the point in telling me about it if I cannot do a damn thing about it anyway?

[Traumwandlerin]

I guess, because those people need to feel special and can only feel a bit of selfworth when they are the few chosen ones and the other will end up in hell. Cause this will give them a godly reason for feeling better then others cause they aren't able to build a proper self worth instead. So instead of demeaning them with deconstruct their belief system enable them with showing them how to build up self esteem and then how to get read of this demeaning believe system.

So why are you gaining fun from demeaning others and se how bad comes to them?


And also, you're right, when you can't do anything abut it and you will be doomed anyway, theirs no need to know. I wouldn't want to know.

[Peregrine]

I guess, because those people need to feel special and can only feel a bit of selfworth when they are the few chosen ones and the other will end up in hell. Cause this will give them a godly reason for feeling better then others cause they aren't able to build a proper self worth instead. So instead of demeaning them with deconstruct their belief system enable them with showing them how to build up self esteem and then how to get read of this demeaning believe system.

So why are you gaining fun from demeaning others and se how bad comes to them?


And also, you're right, when you can't do anything abut it and you will be doomed anyway, theirs no need to know. I wouldn't want to know.

I agree. I try the "tough love" approach in my feeble attempts to pound reason into them, thus the nature of my questioning. I guess it looks angry and grumpy when it in fact it is just that... a hypothetical question.

Ironically, I get accused myself of ignorance or narrowmindedness when I disagree with them; about the nature of God, about the Bible, about translations and interpretations of scripture. I am not ignorant of it. I study a lot of these things a lot more than they realize. My brain hurts some days. I hate having to use their own book against them but sometimes that is necessary, by making them aware of other scriptures, other interpretations, mistranslations over the years, etc. Such reactions are predictable, but I cannot blame them too much for it and I expect it.

Then of course there is the other angle, from the light of science. It's been many years since I set foot in a college but I do hold a degree in one of the sciences but it is... very old now. I am a bit outdated and rusty on that front.